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VPI Turntable Owners Thread

Joseph G said:
Maybe it has something to do with the lower running voltage. My VPI Classic sounds considerably better than the direct drive tablets I own. Some people don’t seem to notice the cogging and micro speed variations, but if you record the same track on two different decks, you can compare a short clip, and the inadequacies of a direct drive deck becomes obvious.
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I only own one DD, a Sony 2251, and it's speed is always spot on according to it's own internal settings, and using a strobe. It sounds great. But them again, all my tables do, but getting the speed right on them(especially the Fairchild, a belt drive that always ran fast) definitely makes a positive difference.
 
L1200G, SL1800MK2 and SL1100A. I have done this experiment using all these decks. Yes, they are all Technics, but the 1200G is supposed to be "cog-les"
 
Pio1980 said:
VPI apparently had a falling-out with Phoenix Engineering?
Sota picked them up and went to Hurst AC motors afaik, formerly used Pabst planar slotless DC motors.
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Steve-

VPI uses Hurst AC synch motors and those motors are not well suited for turntable use IMHO, especially since VPI now uses higher power 300 RPM motors. I debunked the putative advantages that some have proposed with this combination here: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/hurst-motors-300-rpm-vs-600-rpm-upgrade-or-myth.309925/

It was my motivation for investigating the use of BLDC motors driven as 3 phase AC synch motors as an alternative: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/3-phase-bldc-motor-for-turntable-use.288730/

The results speak for themselves. SOTA was the one mfr that saw this as a game changer and all their new tables use a similar 3 phase BLDC driven by the Condor PSU. They are rolling out their Series VII controller at CAF this week which incorporates the Condor PSU and RR tach in a single unit with LED, LCD or VFD display options and internal or external implementations. There are other turntables out there using BLDC motors (Galibier and TechDas come to mind), but AFAIK, nothing in the price point of the SOTAs.
 
sberger said:
I was fortunate enough to acquire an SDS a few days ago to use primarily with my HW19 MKIII. But I've also been able to use it successfully with my Thorens TD145 MKI, and this morning connected it to my Fairchild 412.

I used to own an SDS years ago that I used with my Super Scoutmaster. So I am familiar with how to use it. But I never used it before with non VPI tables. My question pertains to the different frequency settings necessary to get each table to proper speed. The VPI is 60.28, the Thorens is 59.52, and the Fairchild is 59.04 . What variables would cause this, and are the lower settings on the non-VPI something that I should attempt to improve in someway?
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Variables that affect platter speed include machining tolerances for the pulley and platter diameter, belt thickness, belt compliance, slippage and belt creep. Note that some of these variables will change as the table warms up. Note also, that belt slippage can be cured with proper tension but belt creep cannot; it is a necessary byproduct of elastic drive belts as they transmit torque and may increase/decrease as the bearing oil warms up with use. Even if the motor speed is accurate, the platter speed may not be. It is a fools errand to try to ameliorate all of these through machining as they become a moving target as the table warms up or components age. It was the raison d'etre for developing the RoadRunner tachometer which measures the platter speed directly to 3 places right of the decimal and feeds that information back to the PSU which can correct the speed in real time to maintain accurate platter speed independent of all those variables.

The variations in frequency that you posted are not excessive and certainly within the tolerances of the pulley and belt dimensions.
 
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phoenixengr said:
Steve-

VPI uses Hurst AC synch motors and those motors are not well suited for turntable use IMHO, especially since VPI now uses higher power 300 RPM motors. I debunked the putative advantages that some have proposed with this combination here: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/hurst-motors-300-rpm-vs-600-rpm-upgrade-or-myth.309925/

It was my motivation for investigating the use of BLDC motors driven as 3 phase AC synch motors as an alternative: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/3-phase-bldc-motor-for-turntable-use.288730/

The results speak for themselves. SOTA was the one mfr that saw this as a game changer and all their new tables use a similar 3 phase BLDC driven by the Condor PSU. They are rolling out their Series VII controller at CAF this week which incorporates the Condor PSU and RR tach in a single unit with LED, LCD or VFD display options and internal or external implementations. There are other turntables out there using BLDC motors (Galibier and TechDas come to mind), but AFAIK, nothing in the price point of the SOTAs.
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Thnx Bill,
Good to see you here again!
I recall you bringing this up here earlier, but I'm not folllowing DIY.
 
Pio1980 said:
Thnx Bill,
Good to see you here again!
I recall you bringing this up here earlier, but I'm not folllowing DIY.
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FYI, SOTA offers the Condor, RR tach and BLDC motor as an upgrade to most VPI belt drive tables; they can even provide an aluminum SAMA housing if you don't want to modify the VPI hardware for warranty reasons. Before VPI's on-line forum went away, there were quite a few satisfied converts that installed the SOTA motor and Condor PSU with VPI Primes and Classics.

FYI, if anyone is going to CAF, check out the SOTA phono preamps, the Pyx and the Acrux. Both were designed by Wyn Palmer with myself collaborating on the board layout. I think they will both be giant killers (IMHO).
 
IIRC VPI has not always been wedded to only using Hurst motors. When coming out with their first table, the HW-19, one reason the Hurst was chosen was to keep the TT all American. Then came the TNT and VPI upgraded its motor to a German one. The original TNT ad, an amusing cartoon showing the new turntable being constructed by Lilliputians, pointed out the motor's cost was $100! which was about 40% more than the HW-19's Hurst. The HW-19 MKIV also used the Hurst, but with the SAMA upgrade the table spoke German. The only reason I'm bringing this up is that I'm finally setting up the HW-19 MKIV SAMA (scroed a dozen or so years ago) with some additions. One in particular is an original Falcon/Roadrunner system, SNs 42005 and 54005 respectively. AKers had very early access to this innovative Phoenix Engineering product.
 
nailer said:
IIRC VPI has not always been wedded to only using Hurst motors. When coming out with their first table, the HW-19, one reason the Hurst was chosen was to keep the TT all American. Then came the TNT and VPI upgraded its motor to a German one. The original TNT ad, an amusing cartoon showing the new turntable being constructed by Lilliputians, pointed out the motor's cost was $100! which was about 40% more than the HW-19's Hurst. The HW-19 MKIV also used the Hurst, but with the SAMA upgrade the table spoke German. The only reason I'm bringing this up is that I'm finally setting up the HW-19 MKIV SAMA (scroed a dozen or so years ago) with some additions. One in particular is an original Falcon/Roadrunner system, SNs 42005 and 54005 respectively. AKers had very early access to this innovative Phoenix Engineering product.
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Hello.

I'm curious which SAMA Motor is this that you have? The earlier round version, or the later 2nd version?

I ask this because the 2nd version SAMA I have does use the same Hurst Motor.
 
I got an Aries Scout from ebay some years ago, mounted a Shure V15III with SAS stylus. This rig worked fine for years. Then suddenly some months ago, a hum in the right channel. This started a checkout process of changing cables, changing preamp inputs, pulling tags off the cartridge and checking for tarnishing as this can be a humid environment. I could make the hum go away occasionally, but it would always come back. Frustrating and demoralizing.
Finally, earlier this week, after another cleaning session with the hum still present, I pulled the Shure and mounted a spare Micro Acoustics 2002e.
Instantly, hum is gone. Both channels operating normally. Shame about the Shure, but I want to use the machine. So far, a happy ending.
 

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I"ve had hum issues on my HW19 MKIII that have been difficult to eliminate. As a long time owner of lots of tables and hum issues, I've been surprised that no matter what I do I haven't had luck in taming this table. Have an Empire 66 cart on it now(Graham 1.1 arm) and will replace it with something else(don't have an MA cart) and see if maybe that helps.
 
jcidave said:
I got an Aries Scout from ebay some years ago, mounted a Shure V15III with SAS stylus. This rig worked fine for years. Then suddenly some months ago, a hum in the right channel. This started a checkout process of changing cables, changing preamp inputs, pulling tags off the cartridge and checking for tarnishing as this can be a humid environment. I could make the hum go away occasionally, but it would always come back. Frustrating and demoralizing.
Finally, earlier this week, after another cleaning session with the hum still present, I pulled the Shure and mounted a spare Micro Acoustics 2002e.
Instantly, hum is gone. Both channels operating normally. Shame about the Shure, but I want to use the machine. So far, a happy ending.
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Congrats Dave on finding the gremlin and getting the VPI up and running again!
 
Well, changed from the Empire 66 to a Shure M75 and...no hum!

Might've been the cart, but it could be a few other things that got switched around, so who knows? But the hum is gone, and I'm happy because I love this table. So appreciate Dave for providing the idea.
 
VPI representing the USA, an audiophile world leader and a little Springsteen thrown in, cool story.

www.vpiindustries.com

Presidential Classic Signature

The VPI Classic Signature is chosen as the Presidential gift to the Prime Minister of Australia. It is an honor for our products to be part of our country's diplomacy and representation of American manufacturing. How did this happen?A few weeks ago in the middle of the adjustments of having a...
www.vpiindustries.com www.vpiindustries.com
 
Vintagear said:
VPI representing the USA, an audiophile world leader and a little Springsteen thrown in, cool story.

www.vpiindustries.com

Presidential Classic Signature

The VPI Classic Signature is chosen as the Presidential gift to the Prime Minister of Australia. It is an honor for our products to be part of our country's diplomacy and representation of American manufacturing. How did this happen?A few weeks ago in the middle of the adjustments of having a...
www.vpiindustries.com www.vpiindustries.com
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It was great reading how this came together for Mat and the team at VPI.
 
New to AK - owner of a Traveler v1.1 for several years now. It’s a keeper - not going anywhere soon. Also own a spare v2 I picked up two years ago.
 
I wish VPI would use a polished flat belt my self. Their belts that have the ridge where the two ends of the belt are joined is a real noise generator. Fortunately the platter is so heavy it dampens the most of the noise the seam makes. My question is why have any seam at all? I have a Thorens belt story posted else where if interested in noisy slippery belts.
 
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