whoaru99
Epic Member
The only thing assured to come from a better mousetrap is the realization the mice have figured out how to side step it.
The only thing assured to come from a better mousetrap is the realization the mice have figured out how to side step it.
The kids are pretty responsible but I do like to have a few drinks on the weekends
After reading the responses, I agreeOnce you hear it...you will understand what everyone is trying to tell you in this thread. When the sound gets muddy and/or harsh and those conditions are alleviated by turning down the volume, that is the distortion, either from the amp and/or the speakers, that you want to avoid. It is possible that some of us learned this the hard way...in younger years perhaps....by blowing up components. If you haven't done that yet, you could be well on your wayBut like I said, once you hear it, you will know it and then you will stop obsessing about meters for any purpose other than their real one...which is eye candy.
The approach you are wanting to implement seems logical given that meters exist and speaker power ratings exist. But the ability to use these things in a useful way, at least in a precise and useful way, is an illusion. For one, the calibration issues already mentioned several times. That and distortion happens in both speakers and amps and even if by using meters to avoid amplifier distortion, you still need your ears to be listening for speaker distortion.
When using multiple systems with multiple speakers, both. As with just about anything, all the technology in the world cannot save you if you haven't any common sense and tools are only as useful as your understanding of them. I like to do woodworking, but a lack of understanding and/or respect for the tools and I'm more likely to loose a finger than finish a project
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What model is the meter?
and this illustrates exactly as I stated earlier, same meter different printed scale.
whoaru99
Epic Member
kyle
Super Member
I was reading through the 5 pages of this post and I kept thinking, "Doesn't anybody else drink?". My wife and I enjoy our weekend food, beverages and music evenings. The volume goes up as the night goes on. It gets very loud on occasion but I have never blown speakers through clipping. Meters? We don't need no stinkin' meters.Alcohol has caused more speaker damage than any other individual factor.
whoaru99
Epic Member
You've not seen my posts in the "What are you drinking now?" thread. There are too many, probably. LOL.
JohnT123
Super Member
SH-9020
twiiii
Lunatic Member
You know why fuses are installed on the out puts of amplifiers. So the transistors will blow first. Thats what the engineers at Crown use to print in their owners manuals under the Murphy's law section. Most fuses require twice the amperage over a 5 to 10 second period to blow if the fast blow type. Slow blow can almost take a minute some times. There are telephone type FNA fuses that are designed to protect delicate relays and step switch coils and other delicate circuits that blow very fast. But none of these will give satisfactory protection as if you fuse the speaker and the tweeter takes much less power then in order for the woofers and mids to produce correctly the fuse offers no protection for the tweeter. So you have to fuse the tweeter separately. You can read about self setting polytech fuses on the internet and order the correct ones for you from electronic parts houses. Maybe even Amazon or Parts express, but I haven't checked.
wmgwizard
Addicted Member
Meters WONT save your speakers !
Remember....Only you can prevent forest fires......and blown speakers.
I was told once by a guy in an audio store that you want to see the meters "swing". The further the swing the better. As an amp reaches its limits the meter won't go back to the left as much and the swing will decrease. When the swing is limited to the right 1/2 of the meters range you are entering dangerous, speaker damaging territory.
Remember....Only you can prevent forest fires......and blown speakers.
I was told once by a guy in an audio store that you want to see the meters "swing". The further the swing the better. As an amp reaches its limits the meter won't go back to the left as much and the swing will decrease. When the swing is limited to the right 1/2 of the meters range you are entering dangerous, speaker damaging territory.
No, I've run a pair of Bryston 7BSST monos rated at 600w/ch into my 150w rated 2 way bookshelves. The room was filled, the bass was outstanding, and there were no funky noises. Quality over quantity. Most of your listening is done under 1 watt, peaks may go higher. Buy equipment for sound.
There is a language in audio that many people don't understand when it comes to many specs. You learn over time and exposure.
twiiii
Lunatic Member
Depends on whose meters he was talking about. Fortunately for us today most speaker systems the ratio between the power the woofers can handle and the power the tweeters can handle has been greatly reduced. I magine having a system where the woofer can take 100 watts RMS and the tweeter only 4 or 5. That was the larger Klipsch heritage speakers back in the middle 70's. Then they up graded their crossovers which helped tremendously and then redesigned their tweeters. A lot of Altec two way systems with 500 HZ crossovers the small drivers were only rated at 10 to 14 watts RMS where the woofers could be between 75 and 150 watts RMS. Mcintosh early ML and XR speakers along with others had the same issues. Some like Boston A series were just the inverse where the woofers were always failing first. EV had the same trouble as Klipsch, JBL was not as bad as Altec because they added ring radiators for tweeters and used midrange horns with the drivers having heavier coils and suspensions. AR would be considered fragile today. They were only rated at 35 watts RMS as were early KLH and others. But by the 80's everyone pretty much had gotten the message and made their speakers to take similar amounts of power across the spectrum. Yes my current XRT 28's the protection circuits total power handling for the mids and tweeters combined is only half the woofers protection circuits. But that's only a 3 db difference in power. So if the woofer protection starts coming on at continuous average levels of 384 watts and the tweeters and mids at 190 watts thats over 574 watts RMS total. So having a peak rating of 1200 watts is not unreasonable. Klipsch peak rating is 4 times as much. So would JBL. So Mac is being conservative as always.
bowtie427ss
Lunatic Member
twiiii
Lunatic Member
The problem is men have compromised hearing on the most part. So they can't always hear the signs when a weak link in the system is being over stressed. It doesn't have to be a power amp or a speaker. A source that is struggling sends that distortion up the chain that can compromise every thing or anything along the way. Thats why I like to have plenty of head room. output level, above even my loudest listening levels even if I only reach the levels once in a blue moon. Most of the time as I have said before 10 to 12 watts is all I need . Sure if I am really into it I may reach 30 60 or 120 watt peaks. But that still leaves me 6 to 8 db before the Power Guard lights come on. Which curtail clipping and hold distortion to less than 1 to 2 %. I have known disco operators, DJ's. Who intentional run Mac amps to where the Power Guard is just barely functioning allowing levels to be 3 to 6 db louder over all with out distortion with out damaging their expensive speakers back in the 70's and 80's. Mac amps unfortunately became to heavy and expensive to haul around for portable discos. Fortunately QSC came along with their own form of Power Guard that worked well, too.
But that said yes the ear is the final judge, and we all know how women will complain at the slightest sound of distress where the husbands or boy friends will like to push the pedal to the metal to get that feel they are after. So guys listen to the ones whose opinions you should follow and when she yells uncle, back it down. It will save you money in maintenance for sure. If she likes it as loud as you do, she will let you spend the extra money or even surprise you and buy you a new toy or software for your systems. Mine did. She bought the matching speakers when I wanted to convert the Stereo system to a 7.0 system. Neither one of us liked ugly sub woofers. And with 16 12 inch woofers who needed subs.
But that said yes the ear is the final judge, and we all know how women will complain at the slightest sound of distress where the husbands or boy friends will like to push the pedal to the metal to get that feel they are after. So guys listen to the ones whose opinions you should follow and when she yells uncle, back it down. It will save you money in maintenance for sure. If she likes it as loud as you do, she will let you spend the extra money or even surprise you and buy you a new toy or software for your systems. Mine did. She bought the matching speakers when I wanted to convert the Stereo system to a 7.0 system. Neither one of us liked ugly sub woofers. And with 16 12 inch woofers who needed subs.
Currently looking at a Hafler P500 amp and preamp. Decided it's time to trade some lesser equipment towards it, just need to figure out what I want to part with to make the cash I will need easier to cough up. The Hafler will definitely have an easier time of driving whatever speakers I decide to listen to at the time than the 35w - 80w per ch stuff I'm using now.
I notice that I get none of the deterioration of sound when I use the 700w into 8 Ohms Sakura karaoke amplifier at whatever level of amplitude I dare push the speakers. So far I haven't felt the need to turn it up more than a third the way up, thinking it's time to get some more power all around. I like the stuff I have, had some of it for decades. But maybe let someone else enjoy them on their audio journey
twiiii
Lunatic Member
The Hafler amps were a great choice when they were in current production. We sold quite of few 500 kits and they all tested very well when finished by their owners. Factory built units were great. If people couldn't afford Mcintosh amps we always recommended Hafler amps. Some preferred Marantz or Yamaha or Even B&K amps later on. I always thought NAD and Hafler were the best dollar values.
They have one at a local record store that also sells audio equipment, hoping I can work it out with them