Watching the meters dance - the formidable Sansui B-2301L (for Luxury) power amp

[Plimpington2]

@Plimpington2, I think it wise to wait for a cleaner example. This is not a model to gamble on a rough one, hoping to return it to full glory. I expect that if switches and pots have internal damage (as well as solder connections, leads on semiconductors, and even wiring harnesses) then you are just asking for ever ongoing intermittent problems that will be impossible to fully chase down and correct, in practical terms. The time and money spent trying to correct such issues will quickly run you beyond the cost of just buying a really nice one to start.

I've been down this road once, having bought a JDM AU-555A and QS-1 as a bundle (from a shop in Japan). They arrived in original boxes, and worked passably well, but were heavily corroded inside, and on the steel chassis and rear panel. Oddly, the aluminum bits (front panel and knobs) were undamaged, but filthy. Those cleaned up nicely. I eventually set the 555A aside as a parts unit, using the knobs, button caps and a few other bits for improving other components I had in the same series.

I eventually found a domestic QS-1 on the cheap that had been partially parted, but was in perfect cosmetic condition, so made a good unit out of the two, and the rest got put aside with other parts units I've retained. I'd like to find a clean 120V 555A, but it isn't a priority at this stage. I dont think I'd knowingly buy another component with this kind of corrosion present, unless it was dirt cheap.

Ha!! Then you will have stroke when you see the condition of the CA-3000 I bought. It’s all present (and boards and switches look good), and face looks great. But interior chassis is corroded, and some rust on the cover as well (which I am going to have re-sprayed at the auto-body shop next to my office). But I paid just $500 for it, so I feel very good about the project.

 

[Sansuiman]

You did pretty well on that CA-3000, I'd say, I paid about double that at the time, and that was ~10 years ago. Fortunately it was local and didn't need to be shipped. It had some superficial rust on a portion of the rear panel, clearly from humidity while sitting somewhere prior to my ownership. But it was otherwise VERY clean, inside and out, and was therefore not too difficult to get back into shape.

 

[JimEGR]

Yes, I agree 100%. In fact, it is important to me that the interior is good cosmetically (as well as functionally). I can fix many cosmetic issues (and am happy to pay less when I can for units that need TLC and can be brought up to a respectable spit and polish), but the front panel (which wraps around the top at the front) is likely a bridge too far. And the knobs look to be very difficult to salvage as well. I shudder to think what the inside looks like. At $1500, this would be worth taking a chance. But at $2750 it’s a risk. I’m passing.

On the other hand, the AU-X1111 mos vintage he listed at the same time looks damned near mint!!

A clean one will show up at some point. And probably not too far off this price.

I don't subscribe to condemning a unit based on that kind of exterior corrosion though. I've picked up plenty of crusty JDM amps that were just fine on the interior.

 

[gammi]

Hey

Pulling the power grid down in my neighborhood!

A power lifter of the Sansuivers, the 1985 JDM 300 watts into 8 ohms X-Balanced B-2301L power amp. The second iteration of this monster identified by “L” for Luxury. Huge transformer and Coke can size mains. Magic meters and enormous horse power delivered with delicates precision. Married to its soulmate 1984 C-2301 preamp and fed by the 1992 CD-a717LTD tonight. What an epic slice of Sansui history this trio is!

The only downsides are trying to get this 80 pound behemoth into position without herniating a disk and it’s too big for my rack! Makes the 907 Alpha’s feel like welterweights.

Any other B-2301/B-2301L, B-2201/B-2201L, B-2202/B-2302 owners present?

I started looking into the B-2301 since I love my AU-X11 so much and I *think* the B-2301 is essentially the power amp version of the AU-X11 (is this close to correct?)
I find I like my AU-X11 in power amp mode better than integrated mode so I suspect I may like the B-2301 even more.

My question is what's the difference between your model with the L and the models without the L?
Thanks

Edit: I found some info. It seems the L model uses a newer 1.4KV transformer (instead of 1.3KV) and additional copper throughout for more EMF resistance.

 

[JimEGR]

Hey


I started looking into the B-2301 since I love my AU-X11 so much and I *think* the B-2301 is essentially the power amp version of the AU-X11 (is this close to correct?)
I find I like my AU-X11 in power amp mode better than integrated mode so I suspect I may like the B-2301 even more.

My question is what's the difference between your model with the L and the models without the L?
Thanks

It’s more like the power amp version of the AU-D11 ii and what followed from Sansui. The B-2301 is an X Balanced amp. Which is what everything premium Sansui made after 1983.

As far as liking the B-2301/L even more, it's probably safe to say it will do everything your AU-X11 power amp is doing but better. I would expect it would. But you never know with this hobby, and trying to objectively define "better" when personal taste really seems to define words like better and best. @DB-7 has experience with the AU-X11 and the B-2301 so he can share what his actual listening experience is with these two.

The differences between the B-2301 and B-2301L are copper plating, premium components and I believe a higher capacity PT. The B-2301L weighs 2 kg more than the B-2301. I believe that weight is in the PT. I can't find confirmation of that now though. So let's not set that in stone yet. I am ordering some period literature that should give us the breakdown on the B-2301L. I will follow up on that when it arrives.

Edit: Looks like you found the PT information. There's the 2kg.

 

[gammi]

It’s more like the power amp version of the AU-D11 ii and what followed from Sansui. The B-2301 is an X Balanced amp. Which is what everything premium Sansui made after 1983.

As far as liking the B-2301/L even more, it's probably safe to say it will do everything your AU-X11 power amp is doing but better. I would expect it would. But you never know with this hobby, and trying to objectively define "better" when personal taste really seems to define words like better and best. @DB-7 has experience with the AU-X11 and the B-2301 so he can share what his actual listening experience is with these two.

The differences between the B-2301 and B-2301L are copper plating, premium components and I believe a higher capacity PT. The B-2301L weighs 2 kg more than the B-2301. I believe that weight is in the PT. I can't find confirmation of that now though. So let's not set that in stone yet. I am ordering some period literature that should give us the breakdown on the B-2301L. I will follow up on that when it arrives.

Edit: Looks like you found the PT information. There's the 2kg.

Thanks for being a great Sansui resource as always. I went ahead and bought the only B-2301L I could find for sale currently, guess I'll find out first hand how it compares to the AU-X11!

Here's where I found the info on the L vs non L:
B-2301

By the way, since the 2301 is not really an X11 equivalent, do you know of any Sansui power amps that are? I'm a fan of the DD/DC architecture and would like that, but in power amp. I don't need any of the integrated features, I just want the pure, direct sound.

 

[Sui-Yogi]

I'm a fan of the DD/DC architecture and would like that, but in power amp

The X-11 is a DD/DC/SFF and as much as I know there was no power amp made from Sansui . If you are a fun of DD/DC , the BA-F1 is one that will fit .

Comparing b-2301 to the X-11 you will need to use the C-2301 dedicated pre-amp with the b-2301 , for you come to a safe conclusion.
I have not made the comparison, I’m missing the C-2301….but I hardly believe that the combo C-2301/b2301 will suppress a
“cost no object” X-11 .

But the truth is as Jim said below:

But you never know with this hobby, and trying to objectively define "better" when personal taste really seems to define words like better and best.

 

[gammi]

The X-11 is a DD/DC/SFF and as much as I know there was no power amp made from Sansui . If you are a fun of DD/DC , the BA-F1 is one that will fit .

Comparing b-2301 to the X-11 you will need to use the C-2301 dedicated pre-amp with the b-2301 , for you come to a safe conclusion.
I have not made the comparison, I’m missing the C-2301….but I hardly believe that the combo C-2301/b2301 will suppress a
“cost no object” X-11 .

BA-F1 is a good suggestion, somewhat like a power amp version of the AU-X1.
Seems like the X11 is a bit of a rare bird though, the only DD/DC amp with SFF.

I am looking at a C-2301 but probably not going to pull the trigger on that. I already have a modern pre-amp, the Holo Bliss that's very much a "wire with gain" style pre, very neutral, shouldn't affect my B-2301L at all. Just need something to trim volume and otherwise get out of the way.

 

[JimEGR]

Thanks for being a great Sansui resource as always. I went ahead and bought the only B-2301L I could find for sale currently, guess I'll find out first hand how it compares to the AU-X11!

Here's where I found the info on the L vs non L:
B-2301

By the way, since the 2301 is not really an X11 equivalent, do you know of any Sansui power amps that are? I'm a fan of the DD/DC architecture and would like that, but in power amp. I don't need any of the integrated features, I just want the pure, direct sound.

Thanks for posting the link to the B-2301 / B-2301L / B-2302 specs. Super helpful link.

And congrats on the B-2301L. We are all looking forward to your impression. And what an excellent quiver you have going!

 

[Plimpington2]

Thanks for being a great Sansui resource as always. I went ahead and bought the only B-2301L I could find for sale currently, guess I'll find out first hand how it compares to the AU-X11!

Here's where I found the info on the L vs non L:
B-2301

By the way, since the 2301 is not really an X11 equivalent, do you know of any Sansui power amps that are? I'm a fan of the DD/DC architecture and would like that, but in power amp. I don't need any of the integrated features, I just want the pure, direct sound.

Holy Moly, you're just as bad or worse than I am!! I ran out and bought my 2301L the moment Jim told me about the existence of one in NY a few weeks ago. I drove 10 hours both ways to pick it up the weekend before last. I'm glad I did! It sounds just fantastic. And as a "thing" it is incomparable. I feel like nobody was making stuff like this at the time. At least, none of the legacy manufacturers were. Does anybody know if Pioneer or Sony or Kenwood were putting out premium items like the 907 alpha series or the comparable amps and pre-amps in that era? Maaaaybe, Kensonic/Accuphase. I guess maybe Onkyo had an ultra premium amplifier and preamplifier at the time.

 

[Plimpington2]

BA-F1 is a good suggestion, somewhat like a power amp version of the AU-X1.
Seems like the X11 is a bit of a rare bird though, the only DD/DC amp with SFF.

I am looking at a C-2301 but probably not going to pull the trigger on that. I already have a modern pre-amp, the Holo Bliss that's very much a "wire with gain" style pre, very neutral, shouldn't affect my B-2301L at all. Just need something to trim volume and otherwise get out of the way.

I have probably looked at the same C-2301 you are looked at. I also decided to pass on it. Cosmetically, it looks challenging. In its current condition, I feel it is 30% overpriced. I am using a C-2101 that needed a bit of service on my bench, and as modest as it is, in combination with the B-2301, it is the best I have heard in my system. And it has MM and high-MC and MC. And god help me, but I am at the age where I want to enjoy my stuff, and am no longer a servant to notions of audiophile purity - which is to say that I use and enjoy the parametric equalizers on it AND the loudness button when it suits me. This pre-amp appears nearly identical to the one that replaced it (the C-2102). And I believe either can be had for around 5 bills if you are interested in a Sansui stop-gap that does a good job of matching the aesthetics of the B2301L and absolutely does not embarrass the combination whatsoever.

 

[gammi]

Thanks for posting the link to the B-2301 / B-2301L / B-2302 specs. Super helpful link.

And congrats on the B-2301L. We are all looking forward to your impression. And what an excellent quiver you have going!

Thank you, the collection is now:
AU-X11
B-2301
AU-α907 Limited
AU-α907MR

I think I'd like to get an AU-α907NRA as well to experience the last of the Alphas and maybe an AU-X1111MOS or B-2102MOS since they're the transition from X to Alpha. Oh and maybe an AU-111 to try out the tube side of things, then I can stop (who am I kidding...)

I'm in the middle of moving right now and half of my amps are at one house, half at the other. I also usually keep some amps at my cabin and some at my home usually so it's hard to get them all together at once, especially when they're 75lbs each. But I will do my best to get some comparisons written in the coming weeks/months.

Holy Moly, you're just as bad or worse than I am!! I ran out and bought my 2301L the moment Jim told me about the existence of one in NY a few weeks ago. I drove 10 hours both ways to pick it up the weekend before last. I'm glad I did! It sounds just fantastic. And as a "thing" it is incomparable. I feel like nobody was making stuff like this at the time. At least, none of the legacy manufacturers were. Does anybody know if Pioneer or Sony or Kenwood were putting out premium items like the 907 alpha series or the comparable amps and pre-amps in that era? Maaaaybe, Kensonic/Accuphase. I guess maybe Onkyo had an ultra premium amplifier and preamplifier at the time.

I absolutely have a problem haha. Actually I messaged that guy in NY earlier today before I realized it was the same one you had bought lol, I thought there was a chance he still had it since his listing said he took it down without actually selling it, but then later I saw your post saying you messaged him. Congrats on a good deal, I wound up paying about a grand more.

The part I highlighted is a big part of why I like these amps so much. They feel like relics from a time where people built things with no goal other than being the best, it's a sweet spot where technology had improved enough but we also hadn't gotten to the era of plastic and cutting costs yet. The AU-α907 Limited exemplifies this the most for me, the capacitors are filled with silk and the leads are gold. Even the feet on it are solid copper... It's actually insane you can buy these for $3k, an amp built like this today would be $25k.

I don't know if you guys follow the headphone world as well, but there's some STAX products like this also, I mainly collect Sansui and STAX for this reason. They made an amp called the T2 in the 90s that they went all out on and basically it bankrupt the company. Like the AU-X1, it was built to such an extreme that it was known for blowing itself up. A beautiful moment in time where the engineers led development and pushed the limits. STAX SRM-T2 "Staxs greatest electrostatic amp ever made"

Same thing in the car world too, nobody wants a new Ferrari, it's the ones from the 90s that are doubling now. People want things to feel real again. Even though the tech is better on modern cars and they're faster, people still enjoy the experience more in cars that are 20+ years old. Very analogous to these amps, I think.

As for your question, my understanding is that some of the vintage Yamaha equipment is quite excellent, I'm sure there's others too. Really a lot of Japanese goods were pushing the limits in the 80s and 90s as their economy was on steroids. I try not too look at others too much, I already have enough on my hands collecting Sansui

 

[Sansuiman]

I'd add that the BA-F1 is closer overall to the power amp stage of the AU-919, with perhaps modest incremental improvement that moves it somewhat closer to the AU-X1. Spec wise, the X1 is still in a class of its own, compared to anything that preceded it.

I'd call the X1 the inflection point for Sansui going towards ultra high-spec, purist type amps (considering the much upgraded phono stages, and the absence of tone controls on the X1 and X11, though eventually these did return in later models). Point being that it was representative of a pretty profound step up in Sansui's design philosophy at the time, which serves as the dividing line between what came before it, and what came after.

We see further movement that direction with the release of the B-2301 in 1983, and eventually the Alpha line, along with the various MOS based amps that followed. Sansui's periodic flirtation with MOS designs is an interesting sidebar, as they were "fashionable" as output devices in higher end audio components at the time, and were certainly different in their audible characteristics. They never committed heavily to it, but did produce a small number of superlative specimens that use them.

One other side note, my B-2301 (non-L) has the copper panel for the speaker binding posts, and all the internal copper shielding and mounting brackets for the large electrolytic caps. I'm left to wonder if some late built 2301's received these parts used on the L variant, as I've seen photos of 2301 (non-L) units with a black painted mounting panel for the speaker terminals.

Mine has a serial number placing it's production date at April of 1986, which is probably pretty close to the changeover to the 2301L. Who here with a 2301L has their production date handy? I'm guessing production on the 2301L began sometime in 1986, but I've never seen one with the new logo, which officially launched in June of 1987, and appeared on all the B-2302's produced. I have seen C-2301's with the new logo, at least on the internal transformer covers. So, I'd surmise the 2301L was dropped from the line by around June of 87, and superceded with the 2302. Which would be an oddly short run just to make an incremental improvement for a model that had already been in production for 3+ years.

 

[JimEGR]

then I can stop (who am I kidding...)

May the fun never end . Be sure to keep us posted on your acquisitions and your impressions! And don't forget the photos .

 

[gammi]

I'd add that the BA-F1 is closer overall to the power amp stage of the AU-919, with perhaps modest incremental improvement that moves it somewhat closer to the AU-X1. Spec wise, the X1 is still in a class of its own, compared to anything that preceded it.

I'd call the X1 the inflection point for Sansui going towards ultra high-spec, purist type amps (considering the much upgraded phono stages, and the absence of tone controls on the X1 and X11, though eventually these did return in later models). Point being that it was representative of a pretty profound step up in Sansui's design philosophy at the time, which serves as the dividing line between what came before it, and what came after.

We see further movement that direction with the release of the B-2301 in 1983, and eventually the Alpha line, along with the various MOS based amps that followed. Sansui's periodic flirtation with MOS designs is an interesting sidebar, as they were "fashionable" as output devices in higher end audio components at the time, and were certainly different in their audible characteristics. They never committed heavily to it, but did produce a small number of superlative specimens that use them.

I was just reading through some X1 and B-2301 history on Ishino labs, and he agrees with you:

https://web.archive.org/web/2025040...serial/audio_history_japan/serial001_020.html
"Finally, permission was granted to develop the AU-X1, a high-end, ultimate, high-power integrated amplifier."

https://web.archive.org/web/2025040...serial/audio_history_japan/serial001_039.html
"As Sansui's first high-end power amplifier in a long time" (referring to the B-2301)

Both were meant to be the ultimate showcases for their latest technology, DD/DC in the X1 and X-balanced in the B-2301

 

[gammi]

Just following up to say the deal fell through on the B-2301L, basically the long story short is that it was a regular B-2301 and when I found that out I felt the price I was paying was too high. I was fine paying some extra for the L but now I'll just wait for another.

I did get some others though, an all original AU-111 (the famous tube amp), a 907NRA (the last alpha), and a B-2102 MOS (power amp version of AU-X1111 MOS).
The 2102 was cheap since it needs work, $500 plus shipping.

The collection is now:
AU-111 (all original)
AU-X11 (restored)
B-2102 MOS Vintage (two faulty switches, but outputs fine)
AU-α907MR
AU-α907 Limited
AU-α907NRA

Still looking for a B-2301, ideally an L model.
Ultimate plan is to do a comparison of them all and then keep 3 or 4, selling the rest.

 

[JimEGR]

Just following up to say the deal fell through on the B-2301L, basically the long story short is that it was a regular B-2301 and when I found that out I felt the price I was paying was too high. I was fine paying some extra for the L but now I'll just wait for another.

I did get some others though, an all original AU-111 (the famous tube amp), a 907NRA (the last alpha), and a B-2102 MOS (power amp version of AU-X1111 MOS).
The 2102 was cheap since it needs work, $500 plus shipping.

The collection is now:
AU-111 (all original)
AU-X11 (restored)
B-2102 MOS Vintage (two faulty switches, but outputs fine)
AU-α907MR
AU-α907 Limited
AU-α907NRA

Still looking for a B-2301, ideally an L model.
Ultimate plan is to do a comparison of them all and then keep 3 or 4, selling the rest.

Bummer about the B-2301L. You wouldn’t want to pay L price for a standard 2301 though, so that makes sense to wait. As far as how audible the differences are - hard to say.

Congrats on the other acquisitions! They will certainly keep you occupied. You’ll have a nice quiver of some of the finest Sansui’s ever made to compare. Please share your listening impressions - and I’d suggest a new thread with the models in the title so they come up in search in the future - help build the library here.

That AU-a907NRA is a beast. A mighty fine beast. Technically it’s not the last Alpha though - that would be the AU-a607NRAii and AU-a607MOS Limited.

Thread 'Alpha Penultimate / Ultimate : Sansui AU-a607NRA II / Sansui AU-a607 MOS Limited'

Jun 27, 2023

1999/2000 - The last solid state offerings from Sansui

AU-a607 NRA II 80 watts (JDM) (January 1999 - October 1999) 24 registered in the ESAK database
AU-a607 MOS Limited 50 watts (JDM) (December 1999 - August 2000) 25 registered in the ESAK database

Does anyone know what the final production numbers were for these last two models?
Any interesting design/engineering/marketing stories?
Any details on why Sansui chose the 607 and not the 907 for the foundation of their final masterpieces?

Not much out there on these machines. A couple of threads on AK -...

• JimEGR
• Replies: 154
• Forum: Exclusively Sansui

• 

It would be an interesting listening experiment for you if you come across either of those models. I spent quite a bit of time listening to the AU-607 NRAii (as well as couple of those 907’s on your list) and I have to say it often made me wonder why I’d spend more on a 907. It has a unique design with a toroidal stuffed in the front end which in a way partitions the amp into separates. This may be how the fidelity seemed to be so good to me.

Looking forward to hearing more about your Sansui Journey - be sure to keep us all posted!

 

[gammi]

I assume there's not much audible difference between L and non-L. I'd prefer the L just to be sure but if a good non-L comes up, I'll go for it.
Like you said, I just didn't want to pay L price for a non-L.

Sorry, yes, the last of the 907 alphas is what I should have said. In other words theoretically the "top" alpha since it's the final revision of their highest product line (907)

The 607NRAii is certainly interesting with its unique design, it's a shame they never got to make a 907NRAii or that would be the one I'd have bought.
Even though it's a 607, it still puts out as much power (100W into 6Ohm) as my 907 Limited, due to MOSFETS being less powerful. Perhaps I will try to source one.

Certainly, I plan on making one jumbo thread for them all and then I can stop clogging up your B-2301 specific thread

Update: You got me, I found a good condition 607NRAii for only $500 so I bought it...

 

[JimEGR]

I assume there's not much audible difference between L and non-L. I'd prefer the L just to be sure but if a good non-L comes up, I'll go for it.
Like you said, I just didn't want to pay L price for a non-L.

Sorry, yes, the last of the 907 alphas is what I should have said. In other words theoretically the "top" alpha since it's the final revision of their highest product line (907)

The 607NRAii is certainly interesting with its unique design, it's a shame they never got to make a 907NRAii or that would be the one I'd have bought.
Even though it's a 607, it still puts out as much power (100W into 6Ohm) as my 907 Limited, due to MOSFETS being less powerful. Perhaps I will try to source one.

Certainly, I plan on making one jumbo thread for them all and then I can stop clogging up your B-2301 specific thread

Update: You got me, I found a good condition 607NRAii for only $500 so I bought it...

You are on roll! Can't wait to see and read about everything.

I am glad I held out for the L.

 

[DB-7]

You are on roll! Can't wait to see and read about everything.

I am glad I held out for the L.

If you are completely restoring the 2301 chances are you will use the best components available and at that point the difference would be null anyways. Except hidden cosmetic differences that no one can see.