We are doomed

[45rpm]

Yep, some of us do care, but it doesn't mean I have to fret what others are doing, and have to try and drag them down my path.... I never talk to anyone at work about music or gear unless they bring it up first, and that's almost never, and bunch of them listen to cheap buds on their phones all day.

I see your point. But that's not what I do.

I've never once pressed someone to listen to something through a high-end receiver or pair of speakers. Like you, I almost never talk about my gear, because the fact is, no one my age cares! If they want to listen to their rubbish that sounds like just that, let them, but I have a better option...and chances are, if they cared about how their music sounded, they might find out what I've found out.

 

[Tom Brennan]

I get your drift, Simi, Ray. So why don't you just exchange your gear for a Bose Wave and be done with all that extraneous stuff? The music would sound just as good, wouldn't it?

And think of all the money you'd save, and the extra room your houses would have!:yes:

A false dilemma and appeal to ridicule. Not very convincing.

 

[RayW]

I get your drift, Simi, Ray. So why don't you just exchange your gear for a Bose Wave and be done with all that extraneous stuff? The music would sound just as good, wouldn't it?

Switching tactics here, huh? You started with how the musicians intended people to listen to their music and Simi and I responded. Now you're talking about the end user's enjoyment.

Let me know which you actually want to discuss, however I will always contend that the music is the most important part. A nicer system can enhance the experience but that is secondary to the music, IMO.

 

[Tapehead47]

Guys, stop being so negative, please! This is perplexing.

On one hand we are AK members with big wonking systems that help us enjoy music to the fullest. Then you state that earbuds are just as good. Then I suggest if it sounds just as good maybe we're wasting our money and taking up room in the house.

Earlier I said that whatever people enjoy on whatever gear they have is fine with me (paraphrasing).

But it would sound better on better gear. What kind of false dilemma is that?

I just don't get it.

 

[dnewma04]

My point has been that the ipod/earbud combo likely sounds better than what damn near every young person listened to 30-40 years ago. Additionally, there is more good music today than what any of us had around us when we were kids.

 

[RayW]

On one hand we are AK members with big wonking systems that help us enjoy music to the fullest. Then you state that earbuds are just as good.

No, you were talking about how the musicians meant for the music to be heard. Here's a reminder...

C'mon, that's why we enjoy our systems. Not some docking station or earbuds. Whether modern or vintage it's a requirement needed to hear the music as it was intended to be heard by the musicians.

Simi and I responded that the musicians don't care about the delivery system, just that the music is being heard.

Then you changed tacks and segued into "if earbuds are just as good then why have a stereo?" We didn't say anything about that, it's a leap that you made. There's nothing negative, just trying to figure out what it is that you want to discuss.

 

[Tapehead47]

I have yet to see liner notes in a CD or LP stating "this album should only be played on a mid-70s receiver through really big speaker and never through earbuds."

Again, music sounds great thru earbuds. I have earbuds and headphones and use them often. But it's not the BEST way to listen.

What do they care how I hear it, so long as I am hearing it, and spending more money on their stuff while telling friends how great the band is... Not how great my sound system is..

I've been using Pandora since it was introduced. And I listen to my puter speakers a lot, more than my big stereo. Music is the most important thing, NOT the gear! I never said the gear was more important. I only said it sounds better when played on a better system.

Switching tactics here, huh? You started with how the musicians intended people to listen to their music and Simi and I responded. Now you're talking about the end user's enjoyment.

Let me know which you actually want to discuss, however I will always contend that the music is the most important part. A nicer system can enhance the experience but that is secondary to the music, IMO.

I need to clarify what I'm trying to convey....
Both what the musicians intended us to hear and the way we hear it are ideally the same thing. Did the musicians not use amps and huge speakers? Either live or in the studio, they have the best equipment available.
If that weren't important to them, then they'd be plugged into a Bose Wave.

Modern gear is unbelieveable compared to what I grew up with! My dad had an RCA 45rpm record changer he plugged into the back of the teevee. We loved to listen to it! I got my first 'stereo' in 1960, when I was 13. A fold-up thing with seperate speakers and a record changer. I could care less about bass response or seperation and so on. If I had then what young folks have now? Are you kidding?!! That scratched-up stack of 45s looked like someone cut pizza on them. But music was very important to me. Very important. And still is.

 

[Tom Brennan]

What kind of false dilemma is that?

You stated a false dilemma, a logical fallacy, by arguing that Simi might as well listen to a Bose radio, as though the only choice is between very high quality reproduction and what I assume you consider low quality reproduction. But in fact options in between those opposites are available. Thus the argument by false dilemma.

 

[Tapehead47]

You stated a false dilemma, a logical fallacy, by arguing that Simi might as well listen to a Bose radio, as though the only choice is between very high quality reproduction and what I assume you consider low quality reproduction. But in fact options in between those opposites are available. Thus the argument by false dilemma.

Tom, Simi said "what do they care as long as I'm hearing it (or words to that effect)"

I'm positive that Simi would not settle for a bose radio (which is probably a good radio) to replace his gear. Not many AKers would.

I feel like the invisible man here. My fellow AKers jumping on my throat for the slightest reason. I think many of you are reading into my posts things that are not intended. Or I'm not clear with what I'm saying. (I'm not the best communicator).

Seems like you are enjoying arguing for the sake of arguing without reading into my intentions.

I've enjoyed many discussions here on AK, but I'm seriously disappointed with

 

[Tom Brennan]

Seems like you are enjoying arguing for the sake of arguing

Yes, I admit to some of that. Sorry about that, in this case.

 

[JohnVF]

Imagine going to a concert and there were no speakers. No amps. No musicians. Everybody wearing earbuds and tuned into an ipod. All listening to

 

[Twinhit]

Imagine going to a concert and there were no speakers. No amps. No musicians. Everybody wearing earbuds and tuned into an ipod. All listening to

Imagine that.
Yes... it's bound to happen some day and don't think it won't.
I'd call it.. "The Silent Circus Concert".
Only thing is... if they were to go to a "Concert For The Deaf", they
would still fit right in. only, the deaf audience might look at them funny.

Texting is the rage of the age.
Yes, two pals walkin' down the street side by side, texting each other while blasting their eardrums out with their ipods.

 

[similost]

Tom, Simi said "what do they care as long as I'm hearing it (or words to that effect)"

I'm positive that Simi would not settle for a bose radio (which is probably a good radio) to replace his gear. Not many AKers would.

Only way I would do that is if I had to move into a small place and didn't have room for at least one decent stereo... I went years with pretty much nothing... Had a bad ass system when I was around 16-19 or so... then pawned it all off.. didn't have anything for years and years.. then bought a Technics rack unit for too much money.. then got outta music again for a few years.. and now I got what I got...

Yes, I do like high end sound, but I'm relating back to a lot of the other comments here, and back to the OP about how people feel such a need to try and teach the kids what good sound is...

Why bother? Music made it fine all these thousands of years without us, and I'm sure after we're long gone, it will still be going fine. Hell, music may become holographic for all we know, and not like anything we know today.. so why bother trying to "teach" others they need to hear it on something better?

 

[JohnVF]

Not sure what happened to the rest of that message, but I'd said that I've been to several concerts in the past two weeks attended by large groups of young people. They listen to live music socially, and they listen to music on their ipods by themselves. Big deal. I do the same thing. Rarely is anybody over here listening to music with me even when I have my main system on.

Every one of you guys could stand to hang out with some younger people and understand them, and realize that they're not that different and certainly not somehow inferior to your perfect selves.

 

[Rapidan]

Every one of you guys could stand to hang out with some younger people and understand them, and realize that they're not that different and certainly not somehow inferior to your perfect selves.

Yeah, but can they tell me which pressing of DSOTM is best?

 

[JohnVF]

Yeah, but can they tell me which pressing of DSOTM is best?

Get the 30th Anniversary one as a new pressing. It may or may not be the best, but its certainly going to be the cleanest/least damaged of the good pressings. Unless you're a fan of the new remaster (I am not).

There- now the kids can have fun without having to worry about it

Oh, and some probably could- I know a bunch of young folks who work at independent record stores.

I'll even go as far as to say there are probably more people under 30 today listening to vinyl, than people over 30. I'm going merely by what I've seen at record stores in several places across the country and in Canada.

 

[Rapidan]

Get the 30th Anniversary one as a new pressing. It may or may not be the best, but its certainly going to be the cleanest/least damaged of the good pressings. Unless you're a fan of the new remaster (I am not).

There- now the kids can have fun without having to worry about it

Oh, and some probably could- I know a bunch of young folks who work at independent record stores.

I'll even go as far as to say there are probably more people under 30 today listening to vinyl, than people over 30. I'm going merely by what I've seen at record stores in several places across the country and in Canada.

I was funnin' with ya. I don't think I could listen to any pressing of it again without being paid to do so.

 

[JohnVF]

I was funnin' with ya. I don't think I could listen to any pressing of it again without being paid to do so.

Wait, what? Who are you? How is the possible?

I feel the same way about most of the music of my youth. It just got all played out.

 

[Tapehead47]

Every one of you guys could stand to hang out with some younger people and understand them, and realize that they're not that different and certainly not somehow inferior to your perfect selves.[/QUOTE]

I recently retired from teaching high school. Kids are amazing to me. Their diversity and open mindedness, along with unpredictability is a beautiful thing. There is hope for the future, guaranteed....

Only way I would do that is if I had to move into a small place and didn't have room for at least one decent stereo...

Hey, that's what I would do, too. Without a doubt.

Why bother? Music made it fine all these thousands of years without us, and I'm sure after we're long gone, it will still be going fine.

Again I agree. Music will live forever, into eternity. It's an important facet of human existence.

I thought I wouldn't get far in this thread with my ideas of how to listen to music. Hopefully one or two people will try, and then enjoy my suggestions.

Meanwhile, it's been a fun discussion. Well, actually a frustrating one, but fun nontheless. We all have our points of view and "Know" we are right. It's all opinion and not worth splitting hairs over.

so in order to remain in good standing here on my favorite forum I declare a truce.

Two rules to life: 1) Don't sweat the small stuff. And 2) It's all small stuff.

Rick

 

[DaveElton]

:scratch2: Ok, I have something positive to post which related to content covered in this thread The other day, for the first time in my life (yes seriously) I payed for, and downloaded a semi-recent arrangement of a piece of music I love from the net. I then burned it on a CD to hopefuly enjoy on the two house systems, and in the car. In all honesty, I know about as much about "download quality, good-bad" as in "Nada...." This hapened to be a live performance, which contained many nuances, spatial cues and that sort of thing. After listening to it on both home systems, and in the car, I am thrilled I enjoyed it so much, that I then ordered the whole CD of the concert, which arrived in the mail yesterday This of course was produced "mixed" via a particular studio. I have played/listened to both the download version of the song, and the "recorded version" of the song...and, well, :scratch2::scratch2: sometimes I feel that the studio/live recorded CD "may" sound a bit more less "anaylitical"...but then....:scratch2::scratch2: I am thrilled with the sound on them both:thmbsp:

Second positive experience, is that I stopped into our local higher-end "Audio Establishment" to get some new cables, and while there, asked if I could listen to some modern "baby" Martin Logan's with of course modern amps. I was honest and told the guy that I can't afford these right now, but would enjoy hearing them, and He was more than accomadating and friendly. He pulled a nice comefy chair over to the "Sweet area" for the Martin's and popped in my CD and hit play. For the next 5 min or so, it was simply "Wow......":drool::drool: "Most" of my gear, not all, but most is vintage, but I just wanted to say that in the past week I have had two very positive and good "ear-opening" experiences with "modern" tech, and am rather happy about it:yes: