We are doomed

[onemug]

Let it be?

I read about someone who thought Steve Jobs ruined music with the iPod. That seems pretty short sighted. As it's been said, he didn't invent MP3, he just made it cool. Making it cool has millions of kids listening to music and out of those millions will come a % that will be our next generation of audiophiles.

Let it be!

 

[Anubis]

You could look at this a different way as well: Most people today listen to music passively at best. That's why audio stores have all but dissappeared. The majority of people don't care what gets shoved down their ear holes. Through what I call a method of de-evolution with music formats these days peopel get used to the low quality MP3s and what have you including the low quality gear. So the marketers trend towards that.
These days if one wants quality one needs to search high and low for a barely surviving audio shop or go used/vintage.
Thank goodness for those rare audio shops scattered about and for the used market.
That said, your experience with these kids can be a good thing in that it will tame the used vintage prices a bit eventually and lower the vinyl prices back down.
I remeber predicting that around March we may see the vinyl prices drop back down at least as the kids move on to the next fad o them.
So in a way, this is a good thing for us of the old school and quality seekers club instead of doom.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[electronjohn]

All it takes is exposure. Expose someone who's listening has been confined to today's more "convenient" formats to music reproduced well and a certain small percentage will seek out better reproduction. Doesn't take a megabucks system to do it, either...a sub-$100 setup sourced from CL, thrifts, etc. can do the job just fine.

Just think: Those who appreciate the superiority of good reproduction may end up as AKers...and that's what we're looking for, right? I for one have noticed a number of teenagers discovering this joint...and that's heartening.

 

[dnewma04]

It's not about quality any more.. it's about content and quantity..

Not much different than has happened in most every bit of manufacturing any more... They just don't build it like they used to... It's a disposable society any more, and kids have never experianced anything well made.. so they have no clue.. thank us, and our generations past that keep ruining it for the future generations.

During my lifetime, there has never been a time where more very high quality music is available then right now. Nor has there ever been a time where I've seen kids get into more diverse music than they do now. Say what you want about file sharing and it's legalities, it has opened up a new world of music that would have never been possible in the past. I think we are entering the beginning stages of a golden age of music, currently.

 

[dnewma04]

All it takes is exposure. Expose someone who's listening has been confined to today's more "convenient" formats to music reproduced well and a certain small percentage will seek out better reproduction. Doesn't take a megabucks system to do it, either...a sub-$100 setup sourced from CL, thrifts, etc. can do the job just fine.

Just think: Those who appreciate the superiority of good reproduction may end up as AKers...and that's what we're looking for, right? I for one have noticed a number of teenagers discovering this joint...and that's heartening.

Frankly, even with exposure to higher quality reproduction, most of the people I know who are music fans care far more about the music than the reproduction. My wife is every bit as big of a fan of music as I am, but she can listen to anything and enjoy it. It's not about quality or convenience, it's about the songs and lyrics for her.

 

[JohnVF]

One aspect that you guys don't want to hear is that an iPod playing MP3s with decent bit-rate and better ear-buds than stock is not far off in sound quality to a host of vintage systems, especially those playing dirty/worn thrift store vinyl on lower end vintage turntables through amps with aging caps, on speakers shoved up against the wall, barely separated for stereo, with a dozen other speakers around them.

The same phenomena that deafens a young person's ears to the different sound of a good system, also works to blind people who are taken in by nostalgia about how great things used to be.

Its interesting how snobby some really mediocre gear can make some people. And yeah, I realize the snobbishness of that statement, but it is what it is.

MP3s aren't unlistenable. I listen to them all day at work. Are they the highest fidelity? No, of course not. But they're more than capable of getting somebody into the intent of the musician.

 

[JonL]

One aspect that you guys don't want to hear is that an iPod playing MP3s with decent bit-rate and better ear-buds than stock is not far off in sound quality to a host of vintage systems, especially those playing dirty/worn thrift store vinyl on lower end vintage turntables through amps with aging caps, on speakers shoved up against the wall, barely separated for stereo, with a dozen other speakers around them.

The same phenomena that deafens a young person's ears to the different sound of a good system, also works to blind people who are taken in by nostalgia about how great things used to be.

Its interesting how snobby some really mediocre gear can make some people. And yeah, I realize the snobbishness of that statement, but it is what it is.

MP3s aren't unlistenable. I listen to them all day at work. Are they the highest fidelity? No, of course not. But they're more than capable of getting somebody into the intent of the musician.

Well said, John.

And as to why the dearth of hi-fi shops, IMO it isn't so much because of a quantity over quality mindset, or a disposable society, rather it's because there are so many other competitors for people's leisure time (which time has diminished over the years as well). Cable TV, DVDs, video games, the internet, IMing, etc., all compete with time spent listening to "the stereo." Also, my kids spent countless hours in gymnastics and ballet, and then came home to far more homework of a more difficult nature than I ever had. I spent my youth listening to music and playing the guitar. Did precious little homework and had no structured extracurricular activities. If it weren't for the iPod and YouTube, kids wouldn't hear any music at all these days.

 

[similost]

I can agree Dave that today because of the net and MP3's and P2P and so on, we do have a much more diverse music scene than we ever have, but that doesn't mean the quality as a whole has gotten better, especially in the engineering aspects...

I can point to the past though.. I have a lot of albums and tapes files from the 70's and earlier that some sound really good, and many others sound pretty crappy...

It's not always the medium, but rather what the artist, and the lable were wanting quality wise... The only difference with today is, people can take those really great old recordings and rip them out to digital files, and screw them up completely..

I listen to Music Choice and Pandora a lot... and many times, it sounds better than a lot of the old albums I have...

 

[chefde]

My 22 y/o son critiques all of my "new" gear. He has a great ear (plays guitar and prefers tubes) although, he doesn't like my Ohm Walsh 2's

He does listen to most of his music with his Ipod but he uses Grado headphones.

He's got a good start on a record collection; one of his favorites is a Radiohead 45rpm EP that sounds great!

 

[vfr800fiman]

You know, it's funny this was brought-up.
I'm 50, and I've been a Sirius subscriber for 6 years. The other day I was listening to some classic vinyl tracks on the station of the same name and was noticing the amount of compression used, it was terrible! This was in a moving vehicle at highway speed and I could still hear it. I think they have been trying to jam too many channels into their frequency allocation and have had to sacrifice the sound. They never had this issue when I first subscribed or I would have dropped my subscription.
I'm re-thinking my renewal with them unless they fix this. I don't know if anyone here has Sirius/XM and has noticed the same thing.

Glenn

 

[dnewma04]

Replay in a car is one of the few places where compression makes an awful lot of sense.

 

[APman]

I always had my kids listen with me from an early age. They both have an appreciation for good music, not necessarily what is popular.
My son (now 24) shares the joy I get from our obsession/affliction for quality sound reproduction. My daughter (now 28) , not so much.
I think they both thank the "Old Man" for tuning them in to the possibilities though.

 

[tybrad]

When I was a kid (60's and 70's) lots of kids had transistor radios, boom boxes, maybe a Longines clock radio in their rooms. Most of their parents, mine included, had console stereos that sounded pretty decent. I had a small Panasonic all-in-one setup when I was in junior high. None of us knew what real audiophile sound was about, none of us understood that there was a higher power, a better sound. Most people don't have the patience or the ear for a nice set-up. ....
I guess I feel that Youtube is the transistor radio of our times. It's easy and convenient and it's all about instant gratification, not sound. In many ways things haven't changed much and a small percentage of the population will always seek out audiophile quality sound.

Yes, but I think the crux of the difference between you and I, and this generation is that we knew and could hear that the console had better sound than transistor radios and clock radios. And some of us DID seek better sound, others not, but most KNEW the difference. These guys cannot even hear/admit the difference... and even claim "better" on Youtube.

In the words of my 17yo son, "Are ya dum?... are 'ya ign'ant?"

 

[GuyK]

...most of the people I know who are music fans care far more about the music than the reproduction. My wife is every bit as big of a fan of music as I am, but she can listen to anything and enjoy it. It's not about quality or convenience, it's about the songs and lyrics for her.

I haven't found this to be the case. Very few of the people I know that listen to music are selective about what they listen to at all. If it's not the same trendy stuff their friends listen to, they don't want to hear it. My own sister admits (freely) that she doesn't listen to anything critically, but only to have some background sound; and that if she has to think about the music, then she doesn't want to hear it. About the only people I know who are selective about what they listen to are musicians, but even most of them aren't too concerned about what they listen with. I suspect this is the case with the majority of people, rather than the minority. By extension, people with this mindset will likely never care about what media they listen to, nor the equipment they listen with. And the only time I find that people go to a live show for the music, is when I'm at the symphony. Live r&r or other popular genre shows seem to end up far more a social event. As long as the band can be heard, it doesn't seem to matter what it sounds like, or how good (or bad) the music may be.

 

[similost]

My wife is the same as Dave's wife, but since she's had the chance to listen to a lot of really great sounding systems, she's gotten to where she would rather listen on a good system than a bad system, but for her, any system is better than no system.. and I'm kinda that way too... I listen all day at work on a pair of small Lenovo speakers..

 

[JohnVF]

I haven't found this to be the case. Very few of the people I know that listen to music are selective about what they listen to at all. If it's not the same trendy stuff their friends listen to, they don't want to hear it. My own sister admits (freely) that she doesn't listen to anything critically, but only to have some background sound; and that if she has to think about the music, then she doesn't want to hear it. About the only people I know who are selective about what they listen to are musicians, but even most of them aren't too concerned about what they listen with. I suspect this is the case with the majority of people, rather than the minority. By extension, people with this mindset will likely never care about what media they listen to, nor the equipment they listen with. And the only time I find that people go to a live show for the music, is when I'm at the symphony. Live r&r or other popular genre shows seem to end up far more a social event. As long as the band can be heard, it doesn't seem to matter what it sounds like, or how good (or bad) the music may be.

Wow, wherever you live, I hope to never be. There's a lively, active, and involved music scene here and its not just the symphony (though there's also that- and jazz, blues, indie, punk, rock, folk, you name it. There's probably even polka in Lincoln Square's German bars).

This is why I left my small town and moved to a city. And why the city is filled with people that have the same background.


back to the original thought of listening to music on youtube- I just found another band to check out, on (wait for it...)...Youtube! It is a fantastic resource for unearthing new music. Just pick something that you like, watch a video, then see what pops up on the side as its related to what other people watched who watch the video you just saw, or what you searched for. It's WAAAAAAYYYYYY better than waiting for the dead-format that is FM to find something for you.

 

[vfr800fiman]

Replay in a car is one of the few places where compression makes an awful lot of sense.

Yes, I agree, but I have a trans-portable unit so it goes into the dock at home also. VERY noticeable on my system at home.
I guess my point was that it was so bad I could notice it in the car. Fine for talk/sports radio though.

Glenn

 

[Jeffery]

You know, it's funny this was brought-up.
I'm 50, and I've been a Sirius subscriber for 6 years. The other day I was listening to some classic vinyl tracks on the station of the same name and was noticing the amount of compression used, it was terrible! This was in a moving vehicle at highway speed and I could still hear it. I think they have been trying to jam too many channels into their frequency allocation and have had to sacrifice the sound. They never had this issue when I first subscribed or I would have dropped my subscription.
I'm re-thinking my renewal with them unless they fix this. I don't know if anyone here has Sirius/XM and has noticed the same thing.

Glenn

XM used to have a channel called Beyond Jazz, and one of the DJs was Michelle Sammartino. She played a really ecclectic mix that truly was beyond jazz. But that station got dropped, of course. Michelle made a few podcasts that hint of the flavor she brought to Beyond Jazz.

As for the quality, a buddy of mine bought a new pickup about a year ago. This is the guy that doesn't even have a home stereo. We were heading out on a roadtrip and he mentioned he had Sirrius/XM but didn't know how to get it going. So I got it dialed in and literally the first words he said were, "That sure doesn't sound as good as FM".

 

[Anubis]

One aspect that you guys don't want to hear is that an iPod playing MP3s with decent bit-rate and better ear-buds than stock is not far off in sound quality to a host of vintage systems, especially those playing dirty/worn thrift store vinyl on lower end vintage turntables through amps with aging caps, on speakers shoved up against the wall, barely separated for stereo, with a dozen other speakers around them.

The same phenomena that deafens a young person's ears to the different sound of a good system, also works to blind people who are taken in by nostalgia about how great things used to be.

Its interesting how snobby some really mediocre gear can make some people. And yeah, I realize the snobbishness of that statement, but it is what it is.

MP3s aren't unlistenable. I listen to them all day at work. Are they the highest fidelity? No, of course not. But they're more than capable of getting somebody into the intent of the musician.

Well, in my opinion that's not always the case. My Marantz 2238b with Pioneer PL-510 and AT95E cart playing a cleaned yard sale record, driving a pair of DCM-TF600 speakers will blow any Ipod/earbud combo out of the water in terms of sound quality, but that's really comparing apples to oranges.

Being a critical/active listener, I can agree that MP3s aren't unlistenable, even at less than 320Kbs, but to my ears a good deal of depth, detail and fullness is lost due to compression rate of MP3 on top of the abilities (or lack thereof) of the equipment they are played on. Now take a 320Kbs MP3 and pump it through a decent DAC into a nice modern system and it's not just listenable, it's actually quite listenable. Still not quite as good as a lossless media such as FLAC or WAV or CDA or even vinyl in some cases, but not anything approaching horrifying. For instance, I can't bare the usual MP3, just too much obvious loss in detail for active listening. That said though I stream MOG over a Squeezebox Touch and that's MP3 at 320Kbs running through a surprisingly decent DAC and you know what? It sounds fine to me for my average listening. When I want to listen critically, I just choose an appropiate source or medium to my liking.

Just my opinion.

 

[muchachos]

Who cares? As long as the younger (read: my) generation has an interest in music, and a broad range of styles and eras, I really dont care what they're hearing it on.