KeninDC
Hazy Cosmic Jive
Generally speaking, nobody. That's kind of the subject at hand. We care about an issue most don't care about.
In a way, you are actively "not caring."
One who really did not care woud not have responded.
We are doomed
- Thread starter barkerd
- Start date
Generally speaking, nobody. That's kind of the subject at hand. We care about an issue most don't care about.
In a way, you are actively "not caring."
One who really did not care woud not have responded.
barkerd
Super Member
wow, leave my post for a day and I'm surprised to see the traffic :
Inasfar as "it was the same 'back in the day" .. idea : a point is made : but I think it is wrong ... we did , generally, have to put up with lower-end stuff (because decent hi-fi represented a much higher cost than it does today : a set of DQ 10's represented more than a months wage for the average working stiff) : but everyone I knew was AWARE that it was lower-end and that there was something better out there : something better to strive for : or , at least, something better to recognize and acknowledge ....... that's what I see as different .... a MUCH HIGHER percentage of the kids coming of age today ARE NOT AWARE that there is something better or DO NOT CARE ..... that is why I am concerned .......when I was a kid Hi-Fi was in the social conscience ........it no longer is ... it has totally fallen below the social radar
Inasfar as "it was the same 'back in the day" .. idea : a point is made : but I think it is wrong ... we did , generally, have to put up with lower-end stuff (because decent hi-fi represented a much higher cost than it does today : a set of DQ 10's represented more than a months wage for the average working stiff) : but everyone I knew was AWARE that it was lower-end and that there was something better out there : something better to strive for : or , at least, something better to recognize and acknowledge ....... that's what I see as different .... a MUCH HIGHER percentage of the kids coming of age today ARE NOT AWARE that there is something better or DO NOT CARE ..... that is why I am concerned .......when I was a kid Hi-Fi was in the social conscience ........it no longer is ... it has totally fallen below the social radar
They are aware that there are better headphones and better car stereos. And I'm not just talking 'beats' and boom 'n bass subwoofer car stereos. And those categories directly apply to how they listen to music. Very few people just sit around and listen to music these days, so they get it where they can. Around here, its during a commute. I see nothing wrong with that. But there is certainly a market, among the youth, for better stuff. And even if there isn't, who cares? Musical enjoyment can be had on a stock ipod. I've used one for the better part of a decade.
Agreed, and I use it to search for new music. What I do not do it use it for is general listening, nor do I make claims that it is as good as tangible formats. I believe that is one of the thread's themes.
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I'd say that about 25% of my listening is via youtube, if not more, and I have no problem with that. My girlfriend and I sit around and surf around different genres and go down the music rabbit hole that begins with one band and leads to another. Half of the time its just on my computer with my computer speakers...even in the same room with my big stereo. I'm way more into songs than I'm into sound. And I'm pretty into sound....so...
GuyK
Addicted Member
I think you're missing my point, I'm not trying to knock anyone. It's just that I have found that most people in this area, while they do like to go to concerts and other shows - there is a very lively performing arts scene here, not just music,(the greater Seattle area isn't exactly small with 3.3 million people)- most often end up going for the social aspects, the pretext of music gives a reason for them to justify going out. Bar bands and small music clubs are great fun, and they are all over the place around here, but how many people just go to watch a house band or club strictly for the music? It seems that the most important thing is whether or not they are having a good time. I tend to think this is the most important part of going to a show myself, but it's largely independent of whether the music or sound was any good. And at least some of those I know seem to equate sheer volume with good sound, but I don't know how prevalent this is. Further, I don't know many people that go to see shows of more than 1 genre. Some go to the r&r clubs, some to the techno-dance clubs, some to the jazz clubs, some of us even go to the symphony. But I don't think many of us go to anything else.
I entirely agree with you regarding using YouTube is a GREAT way to gain exposure to new material, but for me it's just a beginning. I often find an act I like, and then go find a recording on a medium that I can listen to critically. But most of the other people I know aren't interested in taking it any further, especially kids. They may PLAY it all the time, but seldom LISTEN to it. Observation has shown it to be a secondary ativity - it's something they have on because the video game soundtrack is boring, or they need a little more stimulation while surfing the web or texting or... Not because they want to actually sit and listen. The only time my sister's kids seem even remotely interested in my system is if there's a movie on or something. When they find out it's only 2 ch, and not surround, all interest is gone. If it isn't the newest, they don't care enough to find out for themselves whether it may (or may not) be better.
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bluesky
Lunatic Member
That is what they are used to hearing. That is 'thier sound'. And...they do think it's REALLY good. It's normal to them. My nephew is exactly the same way. Want great sound...get a small Bose earplug headset! Yeah!! (And his father was a musician tooooo!!! Figure that one out.)
This ' is ' the level of audio sophistication of the greater majority of the current generation. I really don't think they know any difference or can really 'hear' the difference anyway. They were born into digital. They do think it's great sound. Fine with me.
I did fire up my stereo when my nephew came over. He actually sat through 'almost' one side of a Jobim LP before he went right back to the computer with the Ipod, mp3, or whatever it was. No problem. (I really don't think they can sit down and just listen to music anyway, it's really not thier thing. If that makes any sense.)
And...they can plug the Bose earplug headset in thier ears and listen to 'wonderful sounding music' while surfing the web at the Same Time !!! Multi-tasking and being connected! It just doesn't get any better than that.
Note: Honestly...I'm also not knocking anyone seriously. Every generation needs 'thier own thing'. Ipods, Bose earplug headsets, and digital music is thier thing. Cool.
Maybe I'm missing out!! :>)
I agree, I just don't really think that they understand real or quality stereo sound reproduction, or could really honestly care less. It's not 'thier thing'. That's the only thing I can figure out. And I sure can't figure out what they are listening to. It all sounds like early 50s music to me. Honestly. People 'Trying' to sing and play instruments. I can't stand it. And I like music, going all the way back to 1925 Delta Blues. But I sure can't understand how they can like what they are listening to. I just don't know.
But it's 'thier thing', so it's ok.
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kenwoodzzzz
Member
I wouldn't say doomed, being 16 and seeing peers listen through ipod headphones. Not so long ago, i saw my friend telling other people about the beats he had just gotten, saying how they "sounded better" than other headphones. I remember when i got my first mp3 player a couple a years ago, listening closely, i could hear the compression even with whatever cheap earbuds i was using. At the time i didn't know what exactly i was hearing, i just knew i didn't like it. A few years later is when i got into stereo equipment. I listen to all digital, mainly because i don't have a TT but i will be getting one soon enough. Digital is very convenient mainly because if i want to listen to a whole CD i will probably want to turn it up and that doesn't go over well with everyone else in the house. One of my cousins came over a couple months ago and we gave him a tour of our backyard (it's pretty neat) and my dad has a pair of bose speakers out there for listening to music if he is out grilling, and i remember my cousin saying, "bose, nice, those are the best." It kind of annoyed me because he is misinformed in my opinion. But anyways, yes this generation is pretty doomed as far as accurate and quality sound reproduction goes.
x_25
Big Vandies!! Mwahahah...
I'm 19 and while I have many friends that are musically talented and do care about sound quality and have their ears to hear it, I know a lot more people my age that don't care or just can't hear the difference. It's also not uncommon to see people my age listening to music from the speaker in their smartphone.
I do that at work when I am in the machine shop actually. Que up some Doors and let it go. No bass, hardly any highs. Still better quality than an old transistor radio though. :yes:
Yes, listening to the 9th at highway speeds almost becomes an exercise in futility and blowing your ear drums out.
Yep. Any system is better than no system. Though I will draw the line at the one set of computer speakers my friend has. What comes out of those isn't even somewhat like the original recording.
A lot of people keep saying this hobby is about the music. Well here is the thing, I, personally, think this hobby has two parts. Music and gear. A lot of us are really in it for a love of the gear, and will listen to just a few songs, or rather, listen to the gear with just a few songs. Then we have our flip side of music, and at that point it doesn't matter so much what they are playing on. It baffles me the number of times I am sitting across the room from my main system, surfing the net on my laptop and I end up spending an hour listening to songs I have never heard before on youtube though my laptop speakers.
It really goes both ways. :thmbsp:
Auto Analog
Justin Credible
IMO, it's true, the vast majority of people would rather have convenience than quality. I use YouTube to find new music, and then buy that same music in a higher quality format, since the YouTube versions drive me nuts after any substantial length of time.
Any members who have a child that shows the slightest interest in quality music playback, please encourage them. When I was a kid, I spent many an hour with my father listening to his McIntosh MC-250 through a pair of JBL 4113-Bs. That system sounded good then, and it still does. He took the time to explain how audio playback works and why some components/systems sound better. (He isn't an EE, but works in the broadcasting industry) Even as a child, I could tell the difference between a reasonably good system and the mass-market stuff that was flooding the market at that time. As a teenager, I enjoyed the hell out of a 70's vintage Kenwood amp connected to a Sony portable CD player, a 70's vintage Technics tape deck, and Realistic Minimus 7s. Better equipment was beyond my means at that time, and I was happy just to have music at all. Today, I appreciate the gear I have even more. Thanks, dad.
FWIW, I agree with Anubis. Vintage gear doesn't necessarily sound mediocre, but this depends heavily upon the brand/model of vintage gear and how well it has been maintained. Ed: I also agree that this is subjective, but the specs of some vintage gear that are related to quality of sound reproduction are within the realm of more "modern" gear.
Any members who have a child that shows the slightest interest in quality music playback, please encourage them. When I was a kid, I spent many an hour with my father listening to his McIntosh MC-250 through a pair of JBL 4113-Bs. That system sounded good then, and it still does. He took the time to explain how audio playback works and why some components/systems sound better. (He isn't an EE, but works in the broadcasting industry) Even as a child, I could tell the difference between a reasonably good system and the mass-market stuff that was flooding the market at that time. As a teenager, I enjoyed the hell out of a 70's vintage Kenwood amp connected to a Sony portable CD player, a 70's vintage Technics tape deck, and Realistic Minimus 7s. Better equipment was beyond my means at that time, and I was happy just to have music at all. Today, I appreciate the gear I have even more. Thanks, dad.
FWIW, I agree with Anubis. Vintage gear doesn't necessarily sound mediocre, but this depends heavily upon the brand/model of vintage gear and how well it has been maintained. Ed: I also agree that this is subjective, but the specs of some vintage gear that are related to quality of sound reproduction are within the realm of more "modern" gear.
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1TUFSS
Thread Killer
While perceptions of sound are subjective (have a look at the tube-versus-solid-state debate, we all know about it), there's what we have, and then there's the el-cheapo iPod earbuds, etc. Youngsters like me easily get sucked in by their friends, by marketing (lol, Beats) and such.
One thing's for sure: Beats headphones aren't worth the paint they wear. Enjoy your hundred-dollar mark-up, schmucks.
One thing's for sure: Beats headphones aren't worth the paint they wear. Enjoy your hundred-dollar mark-up, schmucks.
Going back to the original post, we are doomed, but we are not doomed. We think that we are doomed because my generation will not embrace vinyl and other vintage formats. I'm 14, and am going to see the opening show of Van Halen's Tour this weekend, and picking up a friend's JVC TT to do some work on
(he is 15). I don't think he is doomed, he really likes vintage gear. This summer, I am going up to his house to work on his dad's old system that was put together around 1981. His dad died when he was 4, so he never knew him but has a lot of the same interests as him, based of what we know about his dad. He does listen to some youtube music, but does prefer vinyl when he can get it. Myself, I just spent $35 at a GW last weekend, and own 2 TT's, 2 tape decks, a 5 Disc Changer, 2 late 80's integrated amps, a Teac tuner, and some Technics and Cerwin Vega cabinets. I also built my own wet cleaning RCM. We're not doomed, but it will be as it has always been. Back in the day, who was concerned with Hi-Fi sound?
There is hope, however. Eventually, lossless digital formats will go mainstream, and good mastering will make its return. As with all other format changes, the general public will accept it since it is the "hip" new thing. We have hope, but are doomed by the general population's thought process.
EDIT: We are also both amateur radio operators, and I am listening to 80 meters on a Drake 2-A currently.
(he is 15). I don't think he is doomed, he really likes vintage gear. This summer, I am going up to his house to work on his dad's old system that was put together around 1981. His dad died when he was 4, so he never knew him but has a lot of the same interests as him, based of what we know about his dad. He does listen to some youtube music, but does prefer vinyl when he can get it. Myself, I just spent $35 at a GW last weekend, and own 2 TT's, 2 tape decks, a 5 Disc Changer, 2 late 80's integrated amps, a Teac tuner, and some Technics and Cerwin Vega cabinets. I also built my own wet cleaning RCM. We're not doomed, but it will be as it has always been. Back in the day, who was concerned with Hi-Fi sound?
There is hope, however. Eventually, lossless digital formats will go mainstream, and good mastering will make its return. As with all other format changes, the general public will accept it since it is the "hip" new thing. We have hope, but are doomed by the general population's thought process.
EDIT: We are also both amateur radio operators, and I am listening to 80 meters on a Drake 2-A currently.
Treker
Super Member
Personally, I am very encouraged by the number of young people that have posted in this thread. I think they are the hope that our hobby will continue on into the future.
As I mentioned in my first post in this thread, my 21 year old son is also into HiFi and vintage gear, as is his best friend. In fact I see my son's best friend hunting the same thrift stores that I do looking for quality vintage gear. And they are also both really into the music. Here in Minnesota we have a very active music scene, and these kids are both into the local music scene. I've listened so some of the stuff the local bands are putting out, and it is really good.
As has been mentioned by others previously, the musical tastes of today's young people is pretty broad. I noticed that as my son got older his musical tastes broadened quite a bit, and is now nearly as diverse as mine, and maybe even more so. He is as likely to ask me to listen to some new band he has come across as I am to turn him on to some of the classics. In fact, because he is a guitarist, he has even ended up turning me onto some classic stuff that I somehow missed. I also think it's pretty cool that we share somewhat similar musical tastes, which is something me and my old man definitely did not share.
For me the hobby is both about the music as well as the gear. I love the look of the classic gear, and my son does too for that matter. He was really jealous when I brought home my Marantz 2238B receiver, and very pleased when I found a Marantz 2220 the other night at a local thrift for him. He thinks the vintage Marantz gear is just gorgeous. I agree with him. His primary speakers are a pair of Mission 770 Freedoms that he picked up a couple of years ago at a local pawn shop for $90. Recently he has been combing the thrifts for vintage vinyl. This is all his idea, although I like to think I may have had some influence on him over the years.
Anyway, this has turned into a great thread. Good discussion.
Good listening!
Jay
As I mentioned in my first post in this thread, my 21 year old son is also into HiFi and vintage gear, as is his best friend. In fact I see my son's best friend hunting the same thrift stores that I do looking for quality vintage gear. And they are also both really into the music. Here in Minnesota we have a very active music scene, and these kids are both into the local music scene. I've listened so some of the stuff the local bands are putting out, and it is really good.
As has been mentioned by others previously, the musical tastes of today's young people is pretty broad. I noticed that as my son got older his musical tastes broadened quite a bit, and is now nearly as diverse as mine, and maybe even more so. He is as likely to ask me to listen to some new band he has come across as I am to turn him on to some of the classics. In fact, because he is a guitarist, he has even ended up turning me onto some classic stuff that I somehow missed. I also think it's pretty cool that we share somewhat similar musical tastes, which is something me and my old man definitely did not share.
For me the hobby is both about the music as well as the gear. I love the look of the classic gear, and my son does too for that matter. He was really jealous when I brought home my Marantz 2238B receiver, and very pleased when I found a Marantz 2220 the other night at a local thrift for him. He thinks the vintage Marantz gear is just gorgeous. I agree with him. His primary speakers are a pair of Mission 770 Freedoms that he picked up a couple of years ago at a local pawn shop for $90. Recently he has been combing the thrifts for vintage vinyl. This is all his idea, although I like to think I may have had some influence on him over the years.
Anyway, this has turned into a great thread. Good discussion.
Good listening!
Jay
1TUFSS
Thread Killer
Fourteen? You're doing better than I am!
I don't think we're doomed, I just think there's more options out there that provide quick access to lots of music, and not all of them good.
There will always be those that just hear music and those that actually listen to the music. Just like there's lots of people that play music, but many fewer true musicians.
The masses don't want to put in the time or effort. That doesn't mean that there aren't those of us out there that do...And there is a younger crowd that is starting to realize what can be, rather than what currently is.
Being 32 and a musician, I'm sorta in the older middle, so it's interesting both from a music listening point of vieew and performing side of things.
As a keyboard player, I can tell you, that we're ones that are truly doomed, finding a good keyboard player under 30 is harder than finding a good drummer
There will always be those that just hear music and those that actually listen to the music. Just like there's lots of people that play music, but many fewer true musicians.
The masses don't want to put in the time or effort. That doesn't mean that there aren't those of us out there that do...And there is a younger crowd that is starting to realize what can be, rather than what currently is.
Being 32 and a musician, I'm sorta in the older middle, so it's interesting both from a music listening point of vieew and performing side of things.
As a keyboard player, I can tell you, that we're ones that are truly doomed, finding a good keyboard player under 30 is harder than finding a good drummer
A lot of these kids plug their ear holes with ipod ear plugs and have got used to them cranked up, they no longer hear anything else so well. Or get in vehicles and slap the surroundings with massive amounts of bass.
My wife didn't have stuff like that in her younger days - she can't tell a difference. I think she's more tone deaf than I am. Maybe our motorcycle riding, but she doesn't have all the shooting experience that I have, or worked in loud industrial as I did. But I used to wear my ear plugs back in the day while at work unlike most others. Still do when running noisy equipment.
I appreciate being able to hear some subtle differences - but sometimes I wish I didn't have to hear all the hiss the SUV sound system puts out.
My wife didn't have stuff like that in her younger days - she can't tell a difference. I think she's more tone deaf than I am. Maybe our motorcycle riding, but she doesn't have all the shooting experience that I have, or worked in loud industrial as I did. But I used to wear my ear plugs back in the day while at work unlike most others. Still do when running noisy equipment.
I appreciate being able to hear some subtle differences - but sometimes I wish I didn't have to hear all the hiss the SUV sound system puts out.
hammondcrazy
Well-Known Member
When I was a little kid (the best years of my life!!!) I would sit with my Grandfather and listen to Perry Como Bing Crosby and music in that genre. I would hang out with my friends and they would get a new metal album and play it on their parent's stereos loud and I couldn't bare it at all. Then I had a friend who's father had a huge pioneer receiver and Klispch cornwalls, and I played a John Denver Album on it, an evening with John Denver, it was divine . So from my early experiences I was used to good audio. Most kids have mp3 players and ear buds have terrible sound and it all is just boring. I am sure if you gave a kid a good stereo at an early age. they would never settle for crap audio like they do today. It is much cheaper to make MP-3 players than a high end audio system. And recording a high fidelity album is expensive. So many home studios and crap being recorded today. take an MP-3 play it on a good audio system would be like playing a 78 on it. Garbage in garbage out.
Treker
Super Member
Snip!
As a keyboard player, I can tell you, that we're ones that are truly doomed, finding a good keyboard player under 30 is harder than finding a good drummer
Unless, of course, the keyboard you are talking about is attached to a computer! ;-)
michaelhigh
mind's eye music
Go to Japan, or invite someone to move here! I believe the best musicians in the world are living in Japan, lost in the tremendous shuffle of humanity there.:yes:
jefrodigital
Supernatural
Seems no different now. When i was a kid , im 32 now , no one really cared about sound either.
Sure CDs sound better than mp3 but through a crappy boombox in a bedroom no one noticed. The masses, especially young masses, never really cared about sound. It was about the music.
Even when the format was "better" most systems you saw people owning sounded like crap. To tell you the truth, most computer setups of 2 comp speakers and a sub sounds way better playing mp3's than most folks mini systems playing cds did when i was a kid. $80 gets you a nice full sound these days. Back then $80, which was more than it is now, got you a crappy boombox/mini system all in one hollow piece of junk which is what most kids i knew owned.
I always knew the difference but i also know im into things a lot of other folks could care less about.
Sure CDs sound better than mp3 but through a crappy boombox in a bedroom no one noticed. The masses, especially young masses, never really cared about sound. It was about the music.
Even when the format was "better" most systems you saw people owning sounded like crap. To tell you the truth, most computer setups of 2 comp speakers and a sub sounds way better playing mp3's than most folks mini systems playing cds did when i was a kid. $80 gets you a nice full sound these days. Back then $80, which was more than it is now, got you a crappy boombox/mini system all in one hollow piece of junk which is what most kids i knew owned.
I always knew the difference but i also know im into things a lot of other folks could care less about.