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We need a new Reel to Reel Tape Recorder manufactured.

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hmm,,,,, I don't get it

Who are you petitioning?

All you need is a designer, manufacturer, marketing, and points of sale,,,,,,,,,, and the money to pay them all.

What are you petitioning?
 
Renegade said:
hmm,,,,, I don't get it

Who are you petitioning?

All you need is a designer, manufacturer, marketing, and points of sale,,,,,,,,,, and the money to pay them all.

What are you petitioning?
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If you read the petition, it is going to manufacturers (Revox, Studier, Technics, etc.). I like the idea, especially since Technics is dipping back into analog. A new RS model would be dynamite!
 
Vince1 said:
If you read the petition, it is going to manufacturers (Revox, Studier, Technics, etc.). I like the idea, especially since Technics is dipping back into analog. A new RS model would be dynamite!
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my point was that companies don't just crank up production of new product lines based on petitions,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

money on the other hand,,,,,,,,,,,,,
 
I read something awhile back (cannot confirm it's validity) that a European or Scandanavian manufacturer was planning on re-introducing R2R decks. Undoubtably, it would be a "boutique" product with a hefty price tag due to the rather limited market, and I don't know if the project ever got off the ground or is still in the works. Who knows--lots of new TT's coming out every year as of late, and even interest in cassettes is picking up. I'll stick with my two TEAC X1000r's and cases of NOS Maxell tape.
 
How? Expensive to manufacture. It would cost over $7500 new to build a good machine. That rumor of a European manufacturer making new was yet another company who rebuilt and hot rodded an existing machine (the ReVox PR 99)
 
KentTeffeteller said:
How? Expensive to manufacture. It would cost over $7500 new to build a good machine. That rumor of a European manufacturer making new was yet another company who rebuilt and hot rodded an existing machine (the ReVox PR 99)
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I'd pay twice that for a high quality new deck. Seeing that a R2R deck outperformed a $100K turntable, I don't see the problem with $15K + new tape decks. Sure, there are modified/refurbished ones in this range, but how about a modern high-end pro-sumer deck?
 
Heads are not easy to make these days. Good heads anyway. Not easy to make in small limited numbers. Tooling up for a new machine in the small numbers it would sell is difficult, and getting the money for tooling up back would be difficult. This is not a DC motored belt drive turntable we're discussing here which can be tooled up for cheap and assembled in a garage or small factory storefront here. You underestimate what's involved. You can't buy most of the components today for reasonable money. Tooling up from scratch not cheap. The price point I gave you was what the late Otari machines cost, which was tooled up for years ago, and the parts were already tooled up for ages ago.
 
Vince1 said:
I'd pay twice that for a high quality new deck. Seeing that a R2R deck outperformed a $100K turntable, I don't see the problem with $15K + new tape decks. Sure, there are modified/refurbished ones in this range, but how about a modern high-end pro-sumer deck?
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Vince1 said:
There's no magic to making heads, just like turntable cartridges. It can be done if there is a proven market. Some people that monitor trends think so: http://www.theverge.com/2015/10/5/9409563/reel-to-reel-tape-retro-audio-trend
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I would have no problem scratching up $15K for a new studio quality deck, if I had a legitimate use for it. As I stated in my previous post, I have two TEAC X1000r decks (the model right below and previous to the X2000r referenced in the article). However, the limited number of titles available and lofty price of the direct from master tapes used in the comparison vs vinyl is a deterrent (to me). I typically use my decks to archive lps that I don't want to subject to excessive handling and wear--so my "masters" are the original vinyl with all of it's purported limitations (which I don't necessarily buy into entirely, either), and I sincerely doubt that the major record labels are going to let me into their vaults and check out master tapes like library books.

BTW--check out current prices on even vintage pre-recorded 7.5ips reel issues of popular titles--they can run into the hundreds of dollars as well, and were mass-produced with high-speed dubbing machines. R2R was never and is not likely ever going to be an inexpensive or affordable format for the average person. You kind of have to be dedicated to tape, just like being dedicated to vinyl. I could easily archive my vinyl to digital, but then it gets aesthetically "sterile"--I like watching the big reels turn and the albums spinning on the table. Digital is convenient (and I use it too), but there is just something relaxing about analogue--having to take the time to change album sides and thread tape and sit down and listen to the music.

But I digress--will there be a bunch of new R2R decks returning to the market--not likely.
 
$15 K would not buy a new, tooled up from scratch studio machine today. In 1980, a MCI or Studer 1/2 track mixdown machine cost over $12,000 new, Triple that price or even Quadruple that price realistically to make one today. If it was as easy as you describe, J-Corder, Bottlehead, and United Home Audio would be making all new machines instead of rebuilding and hot rodding existing machines out there. By comparison, in 1988, an Otari MX 5050 B II was $3600 new, and the ReVox B 77 High speed was within $50 of that price point new. This was when these machines were still selling at least 3,500-4,000 machines a year.
 
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KentTeffeteller said:
$15 K would not buy a new, tooled up from scratch studio machine today. In 1980, a MCI or Studer 1/2 track mixdown machine cost over $12,000 new, Triple that price or even Quadruple that price realistically to make one today. If it was as easy as you describe, J-Corder, Bottlehead, and United Home Audio would be making all new machines instead of rebuilding and hot rodding existing machines out there. By comparison, in 1988, an Otari MX 5050 B II was $3600 new, and the ReVox B 77 High speed was within $50 of that price point new. This was when these machines were still selling at least 3,500-4,000 machines a year.
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Well, Tascam is making some new cassette decks with decent heads for a few hundred dollars. I don't think it would be too hard for them to produce an open reel deck under $15K if there were a market for them. The problem is the market at this time would be WAY too small to make it a profitable endeavor. Heck, even new tape manufacturers are drying up.
 
Teac/Tascam is owned by Gibson Guitars. They are selling off the extant Teac/Tascam older parts. Not all the heads are available for the existing machines they built.The BR 20 was their last machine. Their cassette decks today are not even close to what they used to build. Sorry! If the BR 20 was to be revived somehow, expect to pay Otari prices for it at cheapest. The tooling is most likely long gone. You can't build one of these machines on a small cottage industry basis today easily. In the last years of Otari, they built less than a few hundred machines. How do you plan on getting heads manufactured to high quality standards in that low of a quantity, get motors built, get a machine designed and tooled up from scratch, and not lose your shirt? And do well to sell 30-50 machines in one year? You'd have no tooling amortized over years, no economy of scale. This is not a simple belt drive DC motor you can buy from a supplier, a platter and other parts you can buy from a machine shop, a tonearm from a supplier, a plank of MDF and you can assemble in a small space. Understand that. You're asking for near impossible here. Big difference between made in China cassette (not dead there either) and some production still manufactured and reviving open reel machine production from scratch.
 
KentTeffeteller said:
Teac/Tascam is owned by Gibson Guitars. They are selling off the extant Teac/Tascam older parts. Not all the heads are available for the existing machines they built.The BR 20 was their last machine. Their cassette decks today are not even close to what they used to build. Sorry! If the BR 20 was to be revived somehow, expect to pay Otari prices for it at cheapest. The tooling is most likely long gone. You can't build one of these machines on a small cottage industry basis today easily. In the last years of Otari, they built less than a few hundred machines. How do you plan on getting heads manufactured to high quality standards in that low of a quantity, get motors built, get a machine designed and tooled up from scratch, and not lose your shirt? And do well to sell 30-50 machines in one year? You'd have no tooling amortized over years, no economy of scale. This is not a simple belt drive DC motor you can buy from a supplier, a platter and other parts you can buy from a machine shop, a tonearm from a supplier, a plank of MDF and you can assemble in a small space. Understand that. You're asking for near impossible here. Big difference between made in China cassette (not dead there either) and some production still manufactured and reviving open reel machine production from scratch.
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I started to say new RtRs would be too expensive for the number of expected sales. But, when you see 10,000.00 Turntables being built and sold, along with 50,000.00 speakers....who knows? Maybe someone will do it.
 
Difference there. Affordable vinyl titles. You know new Tape Project and similar tapes cost at least 4x-8x 45 RPM audiophile vinyl prices. And the vinyl buyers also have the music they want to buy much more. Cheaper to stamp out a disc than to duplicate a tape. How many new Tape Project new titles this year? Answer, none. How many companies are manufacturing new tape?, 2. ATR Services, and Pyral. J-Corder, United Home Audio if they could have manufactured and sold new machines, they would have had. Instead of hotrodding and rebuilding machines already present. Otari would still be building MX 5050 machines if they could have sold enough new machines, they're not. And they still have their tooling. An open reel machine is 1,000 times more complex than 99% of current audiophile turntables. In the vinyl world, who is making new disc lathes, new cutting heads, new pressing equipment? See my point. What you want and what can be manufactured and sold at a PROFIT are two different things right now. Again, the companies making audio gear can make and sell turntables and tonearms and new speakers, and make money. Those items are cheaper to manufacture. And to tool up for. If those turntables were in house made high end idler or DD relying on no outside vendors, we'd still see few manufacturers. As those technologies require manufacturing skill beyond what most can do now.
 
And then there's the media. Who is researching and manufacturing magnetic recording tape nowadays?
With all the used good machines going unwanted, manufacturing new machines that meet their specs seems a non starter.
Hi-Def digital audio recording is now a common reality with existing resources and much lower maintainance requirements, something with which any studio tech is all too familiar. Steam power was quickly discarded for diesel locomotion mainly on the maintainance issues, I doubt that most studio techs miss having to check, align, and verify tape decks for each recording session all that much.
 
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