KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
They are not manufacturing machines currently. They didn't sell enough to keep manufacturing them.
We need a new Reel to Reel Tape Recorder manufactured.
- Thread starter pjzzz
- Start date
MaxxVolume
Lunatic Member
While this is mostly true, a few avant-garde companies are taking excellent existing decks, and modding them heavily, to the point where they are probably at the absolute pinnacle of R2R technology and performance. Certainly not for the faint-of-heart, price-wise, but not such a bad deal when you consider the quality to be had with such a setup....
http://www.unitedhomeproducts.com/prices_and_features.htm
KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
Yes, and I agree. These machines are being modded to better than new specification. I respect that end of things. And love seeing this belief of potential!
JURB
Super Member
There is alot newer techology could do for R2Rs. Dual capstan, using motors like in direct drive TTs, with equivalent or more mass as a flywheel. Well both flywheels. Sensor fingers that monitor tape tension both before and after the heads that adjust the servomotors for the exact right tape tension. Also, it can detect when the heads get dirty by the friction and light a warning light.
Teflon pinch rollers. I have thought about this and I think they would be great. And less pressure on the pinch rollers, with the newer motors and controls we should be able to control the tape tension so well that very little pressure is need on the pinch rollers. In fact, with the accuracy we can have today, and more modern techniques we might be able to make it so it will work without pinch rollers at all. Not saying that is the goal, it is NOT, but for it to just be able to do it would be a hell of a testament to the design.
And then the electronics. WHOA, we are getting serious here. Dolby HX, you get like about 6 dB more to record in, and these things are already at big dBs S/N at any respectable speed. It isn't even worth screwing with Dolby B or C or whatever. But then another thing can be borrowed from cassette designs - metal tape.
think about what old R2Rs sounded like at 1 7/8 IPS. think about what old cassettes sounded like. And then think of the newer stuff with all the enhancements. I think they could build a deck now with specs like the following :
15 IPS
17-80,000 Hz +/- 1 dB
0.075 % THD 20-20,000 Hz @ -5 dB
0.04 % WRMS wow and flutter
97 dB S/N 20-20,000 Hz @ 0 dB
Using the metal tape, and NO we are not using the same as chrome like cassettes did. With this speed we boost more. Screw the NARTB standard, this is metal tape, do ANY R2Rs use metal tape ? this is a different thing. At that speed, many things can be done.
And if it can do 80K, it can do subcarriers. Like a CD-4 type system but at a higher frequency like 30K instead of 15K. Now if you run quarter track quarter inch you got an eight track recorder. the subcarrier would impose limitations not extant on a true eight track, but hey, whaddya want for the money ? In fact you could make it so each track is stereo if you want, but then being optional that would not be so good.
And then, there are still some good engineers out there and maybe something else would come out and make it even better. I just can't think of anything else right now.
Teflon pinch rollers. I have thought about this and I think they would be great. And less pressure on the pinch rollers, with the newer motors and controls we should be able to control the tape tension so well that very little pressure is need on the pinch rollers. In fact, with the accuracy we can have today, and more modern techniques we might be able to make it so it will work without pinch rollers at all. Not saying that is the goal, it is NOT, but for it to just be able to do it would be a hell of a testament to the design.
And then the electronics. WHOA, we are getting serious here. Dolby HX, you get like about 6 dB more to record in, and these things are already at big dBs S/N at any respectable speed. It isn't even worth screwing with Dolby B or C or whatever. But then another thing can be borrowed from cassette designs - metal tape.
think about what old R2Rs sounded like at 1 7/8 IPS. think about what old cassettes sounded like. And then think of the newer stuff with all the enhancements. I think they could build a deck now with specs like the following :
15 IPS
17-80,000 Hz +/- 1 dB
0.075 % THD 20-20,000 Hz @ -5 dB
0.04 % WRMS wow and flutter
97 dB S/N 20-20,000 Hz @ 0 dB
Using the metal tape, and NO we are not using the same as chrome like cassettes did. With this speed we boost more. Screw the NARTB standard, this is metal tape, do ANY R2Rs use metal tape ? this is a different thing. At that speed, many things can be done.
And if it can do 80K, it can do subcarriers. Like a CD-4 type system but at a higher frequency like 30K instead of 15K. Now if you run quarter track quarter inch you got an eight track recorder. the subcarrier would impose limitations not extant on a true eight track, but hey, whaddya want for the money ? In fact you could make it so each track is stereo if you want, but then being optional that would not be so good.
And then, there are still some good engineers out there and maybe something else would come out and make it even better. I just can't think of anything else right now.
KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
Dolby HX is not that necessary in open reel but would be a nice feature. Ever heard of today's super tapes and even middle end tapes, open reel can be recorded on good machines to higher flux levels than a cassette deck can even think about, ATR tape is +10 level, even Pyral's LPR-35 can handle +4 easily. Subcarriers not necessary. And most better machines can record flat to 22 Khz on LPR-35 all the time. A stock Otari MX 5050 can handle ATR Master tape on the high flux level and to full advantage at some 520 nwb/m when a cassette deck can barely exceed 200 nwb/m.
goanlisten
Active Member
Not trying to downplay or dismiss the request at hand, because I feel it is a valid wish.
However one must understand there are other mediums in the wings that were already designed to take over from rtr
And can be cheaply revived.
The Minidisc (data version) is still in use in some parts of the developed world, granted they might not be all analog but they have quick revival potential.
Just my two cents!
However one must understand there are other mediums in the wings that were already designed to take over from rtr
And can be cheaply revived.
The Minidisc (data version) is still in use in some parts of the developed world, granted they might not be all analog but they have quick revival potential.
Just my two cents!
steerpike2
Super Member
None of that is exactly new technology; Studer used all of those in various machines, but not all in the same machine.
The only dual capstan DD Studer I have ever seen is the 1/8-inch A80.
Skylab
Watcher of the skies
icenine
Super Member
We will see the Great Pumpkin before a brand new consumer reel to reel deck....
Let me use a medical analogy...CT and MRI can show an immense amount of medical information with high-resolution 3D imaging...but is expensive, both from a medical standpoint and plant infrastructure cost (it is expensive to power the magnet that is in the MRI). The lowly 2 dimensional x-ray invented a little over a century ago is very cheap...but the medical benefits from just that are so substantial that the x-ray will never go away. A huge bang for the buck. Now since lives are at stake and medicine exists to save lives no one will suggest that we not invest in MRI and CT because they save huge amounts of lives too.
In music lives are not at stake, and the technology to sustain a consumer reel to reel deck is there but the profit is not. Blank reel to reel tapes would have to be marketed and ramped up in manufacturing, which is not going to happen for such a niche market. Plus the record industry would have to release factory reels for artists...not going to happen. CDs do not sell anymore why would anyone think reel to reel tapes would?
We live in digital world, and right now the digital music file, either in cd or download format, provides the best bang for the buck in terms of cost vs musical fidelity. The sound may not be as good as a 15 ISP recording on tape, but it is good enough for most people.
We will keep the digital file like the medical field has kept the simple x-ray. The fact that digital is newer than the analog x-ray is not important.
I am glad I have settled this once and for all
Let me use a medical analogy...CT and MRI can show an immense amount of medical information with high-resolution 3D imaging...but is expensive, both from a medical standpoint and plant infrastructure cost (it is expensive to power the magnet that is in the MRI). The lowly 2 dimensional x-ray invented a little over a century ago is very cheap...but the medical benefits from just that are so substantial that the x-ray will never go away. A huge bang for the buck. Now since lives are at stake and medicine exists to save lives no one will suggest that we not invest in MRI and CT because they save huge amounts of lives too.
In music lives are not at stake, and the technology to sustain a consumer reel to reel deck is there but the profit is not. Blank reel to reel tapes would have to be marketed and ramped up in manufacturing, which is not going to happen for such a niche market. Plus the record industry would have to release factory reels for artists...not going to happen. CDs do not sell anymore why would anyone think reel to reel tapes would?
We live in digital world, and right now the digital music file, either in cd or download format, provides the best bang for the buck in terms of cost vs musical fidelity. The sound may not be as good as a 15 ISP recording on tape, but it is good enough for most people.
We will keep the digital file like the medical field has kept the simple x-ray. The fact that digital is newer than the analog x-ray is not important.
I am glad I have settled this once and for all
We will see the Great Pumpkin before a brand new consumer reel to reel deck....
Let me use a medical analogy...CT and MRI can show an immense amount of medical information with high-resolution 3D imaging...but is expensive, both from a medical standpoint and plant infrastructure cost (it is expensive to power the magnet that is in the MRI). The lowly 2 dimensional x-ray invented a little over a century ago is very cheap...but the medical benefits from just that are so substantial that the x-ray will never go away. A huge bang for the buck. Now since lives are at stake and medicine exists to save lives no one will suggest that we not invest in MRI and CT because they save huge amounts of lives too.
In music lives are not at stake, and the technology to sustain a consumer reel to reel deck is there but the profit is not. Blank reel to reel tapes would have to be marketed and ramped up in manufacturing, which is not going to happen for such a niche market. Plus the record industry would have to release factory reels for artists...not going to happen. CDs do not sell anymore why would anyone think reel to reel tapes would?
We live in digital world, and right now the digital music file, either in cd or download format, provides the best bang for the buck in terms of cost vs musical fidelity. The sound may not be as good as a 15 ISP recording on tape, but it is good enough for most people.
We will keep the digital file like the medical field has kept the simple x-ray. The fact that digital is newer than the analog x-ray is not important.
I am glad I have settled this once and for all
"but it is good enough for most people."
Most People? Who cares about most People?Most People wouldn't know what's right from wrong,Music from Junk,Vintage from Modern Gear and couldn't care about millions of other subjects let alone Music or it's Lovers/Users and what they love!
steerpike2
Super Member
The accountants at companies like Otari, Revox, Sony, Teac.
icenine
Super Member
Investors and board members of industry care about what "most people" want. Is there any long term gain from manufacturing a consumer reel to reel deck?
No. A new one would cost thousands of dollars and there would never become a time when they would decrease in price so as to be profitable, like say LCD televisions are right now. Just a dead end. The last consumer deck sold by Sony was the TC-399 back in 1979 or so. That was 37 years ago.
Perhaps in the future 3-D printers will be made that can mould plastic, wood and metal from manufacturer's specifications so as to create duplicates of parts so that an individual could produce a working replica.
tapetech
Repair Professional
The group building this deck have admitted there will be little or perhaps no profit in selling an all new RTR and that they are ok if that happens. They say they already have a successful "automotive business".
Yes, the technology is there. They already have confirmed sources for the motors and heads. BTW, the same sources that supplied those parts to Studer/Revox.
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tapetech
Repair Professional
Currently, there are nineteen companies selling new, pre-recorded RTR tapes in the "high-def" format (15 ips, 2-track and IEC EQ)
Such as: The Tape Project
tapetech
Repair Professional
A lot. About $150 to $250 per 10" reel of music. Some albums require two reels. No one has ever claimed that analog RTR as a music source is inexpensive. It's for the slightly crazy audiophiles.
There is no end of technology if you provide the coin to purchase it.
But I am not interested in chasing dead petro products too far at this point ...
tape is too fragile.
But I am not interested in chasing dead petro products too far at this point ...
tape is too fragile.