Well Tempered tracking issues.

[Scott Burton]

Hello all, so I have a wonderful sounding Well Tempered but it’s not so well tempered on certain albums.

So here is my setup. Well Tempered The Record Player with Benz Micro with new boron cantilever and micro line stylus. It sounds amazing. Except when I play older records. It’s tracking, well… it doesn’t track. It skips and jumps over grooves like a Richard Simmons VHS tape. I have everything dialed in correctly. The only doubt I have with the setup is the anti-skate. I am attaching pictures to show where the lines are set in relation to the tonearm. Pay no attention to the re-wire job I had to run outside of the tonearm. I know, I will get to doing it right jeez.

So my question is. Could it be the anti-skate that is off? I read somewhere the silicon level might cause that. It looks right to me.

Note: Newer records play fine. I have a few other turntables (Rega P3, Rek-O-Kut, Luxman PD-264) and those skipping albums play through fine on those.

 

[Aud10file]

Pay no attention to the re-wire job I had to run outside of the tonearm.

Sorry, I paid attention
I suspect the heavy green wire is affecting the tracking. It does not take much force to affect the tracking.

 

[Buck Rogers]

Agreed, The green wire appears stiff.

The wire needs a upward hoop for proper flexture.

Teflon insulated wire IS NOT tonearm wire.

 

[Scott Burton]

Those are Cardas tonearm wires and the green is the ground wire which goes to the ground attached to the front of the tonearm. They are light and very flexible. They don’t seem to apply any torque at all. I could be wrong though.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

If there is too much a/s, it will skip towards the outer of the record. Is that what's happening?

I use 100,000 cst fluid at this level:

 

[Vintagear]

@Scott Burton, as was mentioned the green wire may possibly touching the left side fishing line causing the arm to bind. I also see that the paddle that is submerged is cocked to one side so my guess is that the tonearm tube has shifted/turned in the vertical rod that is attached to the paddle. So it seems that to get your cartridge azimuth level the rod that holds the paddle ends up not being vertical, it's tilted to one side. This might also cause it to touch one of the fishing lines (probably the right ride) as the tonearm travels the arc on the record or for the submerged paddle to touch the edge of the cup. As a starting point, the rod between the fishing lines that holds the paddle should be vertical, the submerged paddle should be level horizontally as should the cartridge mount point on the tonearm. So check the tonearm tube to be sure it hasn't shifted or been turned out of place when you were working on it. Also, it could be an optical illusion bit you cantilever looks off to one side. If it's not straight that will also cause issues.

 

[Scott Burton]

It seems it is skipping inward. I would imagine if it were outward it would play the same track over again. I also measured the level above the puck and it was very close to 2mm.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

We need to see better pics of the wires and tonearm. The one posted is too close in.

FWIW, I rewired my tonearm but used Cardas Clear 34ga cloth coated wire. I also wired it internally, just like factory new.

That cantilever does look seriously out of whack as mentioned above. Did it get damaged?

 

[Scott Burton]

It may have been damaged. I will take it out of the fluid and see if it is wonky. I thought the puck looked too sideways. I will report back on what I find and if anything I can do to even out the puck in the cup helps.

 

[Celadon]

What you have there is the Well Tempered Record Player <-- model name.
Will post a pic of the WT lineup showing your table when they were run by Transparent Audio. It looks like you have the upgraded black damped platter -- pretty hefty price that platter was.-

Do you have the setup manual -- it details where you need to be regarding adjustments. It would be especially helpfull if you had the WT Protractor as well.

I have owned the Well Tempered Classic V for maybe 20 years, or so.

I cannot tell from your photos if your puck has been moved from it's original position, but just thinking that green ground wire seems maybe to be an issue as well.
The stylus -- looks way off as well.

The silicon in the cup should be covered by 1-2 mm of fluid according to manufacturer...

I have a lot of information on these tables -- and, yes I myself have to restring my arm -- and mess in the silly goo pot! Working with that stinkin silicon sucks... -- Iso Alcohol cuts the silicon, to help clean up the mess....
Although our arms are quite different - a lot of the setup is the same, I might be able to take some photos of the manual.

Celadon

 

[triode]

Cantilever position seems to indicate too little anti skate. and that matches with your observation that it skips inwards.
Increasing anti skate will also require some more downforce to balance out the forces.
My guess is a combination of too little anti skate (thereby a little less downforce), and bad alignment (because of the off center canti).

One way to confirm that the wires are not dragging the arm is to zero out the balance of the arm, and tap up/down left/right through the full arc/swing of the arm and observe that arm moves freely without any visible drag in any position. Ofcourse remove the stylus/cart before you do this.

 

[whtspider26]

As others have mentioned, the post holding the paddle seems to be tilted slightly and not centered in the silicone well. I suspect the nosepiece that cartridge mounts on is not in the correct orientation relative to the paddle arm.

Adjust the paddle in the well so it is centered in the oil using the azimuth knob on top. The cartridge will likely be askewed quite a bit. There is a small screw at the bottom of the tonearm tune where the nosepiece is inserted. Loosen that screw and rotate the nosepiece so it is level with the platter and tighten. The tonearm should now be ready to adjust probably for tracking force, VTA, and azimuth. At this point the cartridge should track correctly unless someone has put too many twist in the nylon threads which is causing the extreme anti-skating. But I think is unlikely since it would require restringing the nylon thread; but it’s possible.

 

[Sgt Shultz]

It seems it is skipping inward. I would imagine if it were outward it would play the same track over again. I also measured the level above the puck and it was very close to 2mm.

Your arm has zero anti-skate at the moment, the holes in the paddle should be at the 10:00, and 4:00 points respectively when the arm is at rest.

Azimuth should be set so the stylus is perpendicular to the record surface, a mirror can help with this, fine tuning by ear.

The tonearm wires do appear to be a bit tight and might be adding some inward pressure, I would correct the paddle orientation first and go from there.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

Bill Firebaugh designed these to have some anti-skate always applied. To reduce the a/s closer to none, you have to rotate the paddle ccw. There will be a point where the monofilament lines will touch the arm at some point in its travel. Back off from that point. The a/s won’t ever be none, but this will reduce it from the factory setting.

 

[Celadon]

Hi Scott-
Lots of helpful information being given here; awesome!
All useful, and great insight to the World of the Well Tempered.

I agree with Sgt Shultz -
Great roadmap he has provided

How goes your journey, thus far ?

BTW -- my arm has AS adjustment -- (by spinning a wheel, it widens or narrows the "arms" that the monofilament goes through).
My table seems to perform best -- with very little AS applied.

Just to throw a bit of a kink in the mix-- are you certain the monofilament is strung correctly?
I have, a sheet that shows proper restring routing -- if needed, just let me know.

Looking forward to hearing of your advances.

Celadon

 

[Coolhandjjl]

… BTW -- my arm has AS adjustment -- (by spinning a wheel, it widens or narrows the "arms" that the monofilament goes through).
My table seems to perform best -- with very little AS applied…

Celadon

All the way narrow is the minimum setting. As it widens, it increases a/s.
But the minimum setting is key here. If it’s at its narrowest, and you still have too much a/s, then you have no other choice but to rotate the paddle as I described above.

 

[Celadon]

@Coolhandjjl
Yes, I suppose I should have explained that.
Although similar, his arm is different --and does not have the wheel like mine.
Agree that minimum setting is key.

 

[Sgt Shultz]

I also feel the cartridge should be mounted in such a way the stylus is in line with the shaft centerline as with the original arm.

 

[Celadon]

Definately agree Sgt Shultz
I think I had asked early on, but he needs one of these:


It appears that both of you have the earlier arm, compared to mine (end mount is different), BUT...
In the photo I posted, see the circle on the protractor... the end of the arm - the piece between where the cart is mounted, that endpoint, when the arm is positioned (centered) over the spindle needs to line up with the OUTER portion of the circle.
Then of course the lines in the middle are used like any other protractor; aligning 2 points.

Although I don't know what protractor other than the WT one will work properly, as Firebaugh did things differently, and I have never used another protractor on this table.

Maybe A Dennessen would work, they used to be pretty cheap.
I had forgotten about the cantilever, that should be figured out.

Use a known good cartridge --

Without a protractor -- it's like trying to get a haircut over the phone ....

Celadon

 

[Coolhandjjl]

Setting the stylus overhang to that outer circle on the WT gauge will give you the start for getting the correct alignment with the WT gauge. You also can use the Ortofon gauge. That may change the overhang ever-so-slightly. The results will be very similar no matter which one gauge use. It’s nothing to obsess over.