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Were Renaissance 90s the best Infinity?

back said:
aha this must be an explanation for my 40% lower values.
on the other hand when you buy a replacement inductor
where is the stated value refered to?
i believe at 1khz and not at the frequency you need.
so the result is the same.
am i right?
Click to expand...

The specified value will be the nominal value at the centre design frequency - so that will depend on the type of inductor. Air core inductors are less of an issue because their operating range is not limited by factors such as hysteresis loss etc that apply to a ferrous core.

To finish this debate I will set up a test bed to measure the inductors at the desired frequency. I'm pretty confident they will meet spec.
 
so if i change the mb inductors to air core i should follow schematic values?
i was also thinking to change the mid and tweeter inductors to foil.
 
back said:
so if i change the mb inductors to air core i should follow schematic values?
i was also thinking to change the mid and tweeter inductors to foil.
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The DC resistance would be far too high to consider air core for the MB inductors. The Erse super Q laminated steel are the best choice for inductors > 0.7mH.

Copper foil inductors are excellent but very large. They are best used for tweeter applications where they offer excellent bandwidth.
 
timpani said:
The DC resistance would be far too high to consider air core for the MB inductors. The Erse super Q laminated steel are the best choice for inductors > 0.7mH.

Copper foil inductors are excellent but very large. They are best used for tweeter applications where they offer excellent bandwidth.
Click to expand...

if so is there a reason to change them to erse?
maybe i should leave what is already there.
i have been told that foil inductors would be good and for the midrange
since they have excelent resistance to vibrations too.
 
back said:
if so is there a reason to change them to erse?
maybe i should leave what is already there.
i have been told that foil inductors would be good and for the midrange
since they have excelent resistance to vibrations too.
Click to expand...

The Erse super Q will probably give you less distortion - particularly above 300Hz and at higher SPL. I have replaced all of the iron core inductors with the exception of the 18mH inductor in the 2 ohm woofer LC network. Although the DCR is slightly higher for the Erse I found that there was a slight but audible increase in energy in the mid bass region as well as a slight but audible improvement in detail.

WRT the use of foil inductors in the EMIM network, there's not really sufficient space to mount them on the cct board. I was only just able to squeeze in the Solen perfect-lay types.
 
what about Jantzen P-core inductors? if their marketing isn't total BS, they should be a happy medium between air-core and steel-core for the larger values.
 
for the midbass i am thinking to change the 72uf npe to 75uf erse pulse x mkp.
is it ok or should i use 68uf paralled with 4uf.
i have and 2 solen 20uf.should i parallel them with 100uf npe or 125uf to replace the 140uf?
sorry for the many questions but i don`t have your experience guys.
p.s.i will keep the same inductors at the midbass.
 
back said:
for the midbass i am thinking to change the 72uf npe to 75uf erse pulse x mkp.
is it ok or should i use 68uf paralled with 4uf.
i have and 2 solen 20uf.should i parallel them with 100uf npe or 125uf to replace the 140uf?
sorry for the many questions but i don`t have your experience guys.
p.s.i will keep the same inductors at the midbass.
Click to expand...

Non linearities from the 140uF npe will have a more significant effect on SQ than from the 72uF npe. If you substitute the 140 npe with a film cap you will need to reduce the value to 130uF - due to the lower esr but it's worth doing.
(I'm using a 120uF Solen fast cap with a 10uF BG in parallel)

Don't change the value of the 72 uF NPE but use several ERSE caps in parallel to achieve the correct value. The other alternative is to upgrade the 72uF Solen in the EMIM crossover so you can then use it to replace the existing 72uF NPE cap in the MB section - but you may need to be inventive to fit it into the pc board.
 
i thought the opposite because the 72uf is in series with the signal.then i will use an erse 130uf.it`s not that expensive.the 72uf solen will be huge and i don`t know if it`s replacement will give any benefit to the emim.

i guess the 33uf npe must be reduced at 30uf if changed to mkp at the emim or the 0.22r in series is enough?
 
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the difference between 72uF and 75uF represents at most a 2% change in the crossover point or shelved response. i suspect you'd never hear the difference as long as they are matched left and right. if the 75uF is much more practical from a size or cost standpoint, i wouldn't hesitate.
 
cdfac said:
the difference between 72uF and 75uF represents at most a 2% change in the crossover point or shelved response. i suspect you'd never hear the difference as long as they are matched left and right. if the 75uF is much more practical from a size or cost standpoint, i wouldn't hesitate.
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i thought the same.
besides the npe that will be replaced is 5% so there is some room.
 
back said:
i thought the opposite because the 72uf is in series with the signal.then i will use an erse 130uf.it`s not that expensive.the 72uf solen will be huge and i don`t know if it`s replacement will give any benefit to the emim.

i guess the 33uf npe must be reduced at 30uf if changed to mkp at the emim or the 0.22r in series is enough?
Click to expand...

I ran some simulations and found that the 140uF was the most critical but the 72uF is not too far behind. Changing from 72 to 75uF adds about 1dB at 200Hz but because the response is already 2dB high at that point I elected to keep the same value - tested, but I agree the difference is probably not audible.

Yes you should reduce the 33uF NPE to 30uF in the EMIM - and change to a film type. i found that 0.33R in series was optimum - in simulation and also subjectively. This upgrade alone will raise the midrange quality substantially.
 
i tried to remove the pcb from the bottom but the cables are too short.
did you you remove it from the woofer opening guys?
 
recaping finished yestarday.

i changed all the electrolytic caps with erse pulse x

and changed the tweeter caps with obbligato coper caps.

the rest of the solens stayed.

i am really shoked of the improvement.

i wonder how much this speaker can be improved since

from what i saw the mid and tweeter coils are bad quality.

they are all iron core.

where did you guys see air core?

anyway i want to thank you guys for your help.
 
back said:
recaping finished yestarday.

i changed all the electrolytic caps with erse pulse x

and changed the tweeter caps with obbligato coper caps.

the rest of the solens stayed.

i am really shoked of the improvement.

i wonder how much this speaker can be improved since

from what i saw the mid and tweeter coils are bad quality.

they are all iron core.

where did you guys see air core?

anyway i want to thank you guys for your help.
Click to expand...


For the record, Infinity apparently revised the crossover design during the middle of production. This of course means that not all of the speakers have the same crossover.
 
Hi

Sorry for the interruption, I see a postgrade here.
I couldn't find any info on one issue: How ribbon should look?
The other day I went to audiotion one pair of Renaissance, good shape (9 points), no spikes, sound good, but when a took a closer look I have some doubt.
One mid, looked perfect: straight and tight like in this picture
Renaissance_90_24_1.jpg

The other looked straight but some lines a little lifted.

And the tweeters looked straight but warped like this
Renaissance_90_25_1.jpg

These things are common? Or have been injured?.

And I wold like to know: how much a new Ren80 costed, and how much today used in USA?

Thanks and Regards
Fer
PD: Sorry for me english
 
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