Wharfedales

[albowlly]

Cleaning the pots didn't bring the tweeter back. I'll test it with a meter tomorrow.

 

[Gang-Twanger]

Cleaning the pots didn't bring the tweeter back. I'll test it with a meter tomorrow.

That's a bummer... At least the surrounds are okay. Yeah, those have the inverted ones (Toilets flush backwards in Australia, so hey, why not). I believe they're cloth (rubber-treated to prevent air-leakage).

 

[Winters]

That's the thing... I've read posts from quite a few W70D owners from the UK who said theirs were Rosedales. I just hadn't seen anybody use the Rosedale name in regards to anything BUT the W70D's. Perhaps they had done this with ALL the European W70 variations. You're actually the first person I heard mention this about the W70E, although I don't doubt this is the case.

Are you sure that the driver combination was in fact the one of W70D (4 way)? From what I've seen, the European ROSEDALE has the same cabinet as American W70Ds but the driver combination is definitely W70E.

My W70Ds are definitely the UK-made version and they are not Rosedales. The best way to identify the European version is the back plate:

I have also seen W60Ds with a similar plate. I think that perhaps, the European Wxx models were not available in the UK BUT only in continental Europe. The UK-market loudspeakers bore names like Linton, Denton, Airedale, Teesdale, Dovedale etc.

Here is a september 1970 Dutch review of the ROSEDALE. I don't know Dutch, but it definitely looks like it is a 3 way system (technical specifications mention 3 drivers):
http://www.oudio.nl/articles/loudspeaker/index.html

 

[Gang-Twanger]

Are you sure that the driver combination was in fact the one of W70D (4 way)? From what I've seen, the European ROSEDALE has the same cabinet as American W70Ds but the driver combination is definitely W70E.

My W70Ds are definitely the UK-made version and they are not Rosedales. The best way to identify the European version is the back plate:

I have also seen W60Ds with a similar plate. I think that perhaps, the European Wxx models were not available in the UK BUT only in continental Europe. The UK-market loudspeakers bore names like Linton, Denton, Airedale, Teesdale, Dovedale etc.

Here is a september 1970 Dutch review of the ROSEDALE. I don't know Dutch, but it definitely looks like it is a 3 way system (technical specifications mention 3 drivers):
http://www.oudio.nl/articles/loudspeaker/index.html

Well, don't forget there were at least TWO different versions of the W70D (The W60D actually had THREE different variations... Not sure about the W70D, but I know they had at least two different versions). At some point, they switched from the 4-way version with the 12" woofer to a 3-way with the 15" one, so perhaps that's what you're referring to. That's why you sometimes see them labeled as W70D MkII's. And there MAY have been a MkIII version as well (Not true, apparently... I was wrong about this, as I realized later), but regardless there WAS a W70D that came with a 3-way, 15" configuration (No, there wasn't... Ignore this idiot )... I've seen them (No, you haven't), and I've talked with a guy who owned the 4-way version back in the day and talked about the 3-way, 15" W70D version and had actually auditioned them back in the day because he was thinking of updating... (No, he was just confused, and so was I... And you are too by now, no doubt).

*EDIT* - What I realized later was that the Rosedale came out a good 2 years BEFORE the W70E and it's W*0E series brethren, but it's still the same as the W70E. The Rosedale was part of the 1969 UK catalog along with the Denton, Dovedale III, and others. The UK was simply the first market to see the affects of Rank's purchase of Leak (Harold Leake retired) in January '69 and the subsequent shift of the Wharfedale brand from the high-end market to a mid-fi/upper-mid-fi thing. The Wharfedale technical/design staff was furious (So were the Leak employees... They had to relocate because Rank wanted to centralize manufacturing operations for both brands... Most employees chose to remain with the company and made the big move to the Idle, Bradford area where the Wharfedale facilities were located).*EDIT*

 

[Winters]

Ah, yes, you're right.
Is there any difference between W70D MkII and W70E?

 

[Gang-Twanger]

Ah, yes, you're right.
Is there any difference between W70D MkII and W70E?

Well, that's the confusing thing. Based on what I've read in many places, the W70D MkII is actually the 4-way, 12" version. And as far as I know, the 3-way, 15" version came AFTER that, so there must have been a MkI version just like the early W60D's, which had the early version of the purple tweeter, just like the W60C (And to confuse things even more, the W70C had a CONE-tweeter, and not that early purple one that looks like the cover is missing... There were three different versions of that purple tweeter).

It's bloody-confusing, I tell ya'... That's why it's taken me 4 years of researching to get that W*** series figured out.

 

[_GWH_]

Saw the pics... I really-like those W70D's. I've seen quite a few different cab-styles for that version. Yours are like carry-overs from the earlier style cabs. Perhaps they're EARLY W70D's. Both types look great. By the way, what does "OG" stand for?

OG= Original

 

[Gang-Twanger]

Saw the pics... I really-like those W70D's. I've seen quite a few different cab-styles for that version. Yours are like carry-overs from the earlier style cabs. Perhaps they're EARLY W70D's. Both types look great. By the way, what does "OG" stand for?

OG= Original

Gotcha... I thought it might have been that, but I wanted to be sure.

And I just looked the pics of yours again, and they look a lot like the W70d's that Winters has. The W70's were some of the best-looking speakers ever made, that's for sure. They made some incredibly-impressive speakers during the Rank-Wharfedale era. When I first heard my W90's (which will have oil capacitors in them shortly), it was like, "Yeah... That's the sound I've been searching for." They do classic-rock from the '50's, '60's, and '70's with an authenticity that has to be heard to be believed. But they MUST be placed correctly. They need to be at the proper height, and the placement distances really need to be right in order to get that magic. But once you get everything locked in, it's game over...

I've been stuck on the couch all weekend trying to kick a nasty bug... The fever's finally gone though, and I'm starting to feel like myself again.

 

[_GWH_]

Yeah, i hear that. I was layed up today. I have never had mine apart but was kicking around the idea of changing the caps. I hear replacing them with OIP caps is the way to go. I will be doing my first recap on a pair of project KLH model six's. Hope it goes well and i get the confidence to do my wharfies.

 

[Gang-Twanger]

Sony6060 just helped me out with the big cap-search (via his messenger, Crestwood23, who took the initiative to ask Sony6060 about it and then contacted me afterwards... Big thanks to BOTH of you guys... Good lookin' out :thmbsp: ).

Just ordered some n.o.s. Sprague paper-in-oil caps for the mids (More like lunchboxes than caps), and I'm in the middle of doing the order for the tweeter caps. Man, is this gonna' be awesome.

 

[_GWH_]

Those are huge! (thats what she said)

 

[Gang-Twanger]

Those are huge! (thats what she said)

Yeah, I'm stoked about finding those... Crestwood23 really-did me a solid on that one. I was about ready to order some other ones, and then he decided to ask Sony6060 (one of the resident speaker/amp-restore gurus here) about which caps would be best for what I'm looking for (and where to get them), and now I have these on the way (and for about $80-$85 total for all 4 caps, shipping included, which is less than half of what I was expecting to pay). All n.o.s. Sprague paper-in-oil caps (Clorinol, which is one of those old toxic oils they used to put in those things before they found out that it can kill ya'). I'm super-excited about finally getting these done. Been wanting to do it for the past year. The W90's are going to sound amazing.

 

[tjohnusa]

I have a set of Diamond 8.2 and use them as my mains in my thrifty HT setup. They fit well for my porpouses but when playing music in the 2.1 format they are recessed and not very bright. That is fine since I rarely use them for that pourpose and when I do they are played at low background volumes. The finish on mine are Maple and wish the fornt plate was painted black instead of silver but they are still a very nice looking speaker. I bought them from audio advisor about 4 years ago on closeout for about $125 shipped.

 

[Gang-Twanger]

I drank the kool-aid as well a long time ago. No looking back with my E90's, the sound is amazing and the build quality never ceases to amaze me.

Pics from the web

I still need to hear a pair of these with some tubes... I've been close to buying a pair a few times (either E90's or E70's), but it's tough because I already love my current Wharfies, and I only have so-much room... Maybe I'll grab some E70's one day... Probably a better choice for the room anyway. The E90's might be too-big (That didn't stop me from buying my W90's, and thank God for that, although I did have more room back then).

 

[BilboBaggins]

Wharfedale Dovedale 3 and Denton

Hi,

I just saw this thread and I am so happy I found a thread on Wharfedale speakers. I think the vintage wharfedales don't get their due in the audio forums.

I have a pair of Denton's however one of the purple tweeters is toast. I checked it on my multimeter, and it is open circuit. However, just recently I learned it is the same as the tweeter in the Dovedale 3, so I will keep my good one for a spare. I bought them at an estate sale and couldn't test them, so I negotiated a reflective price. They were a pain to open up as they were completely sealed, and insulated with a cotton of some kind. I've saved everything.

However I also have a pair of Dovedale 3s that I love. They were the first pair of speakers I found with such clear imaging. It was almost as though the imaging wasn't quite in focus with my other speakers, but when I plugged these into my Yamaha M-40 with a Sony TA 2000f, they had perfectly sharp imaging. It was astounding to hear on my own system in my own space on a pair of speakers that I paid little for. They are in pretty good shape. I do think they can be improved. I find the woofer surrounds are a bit stiff, and they don't go as low as I believe they should. I did improve things by opening them up and replacing the fibre filler more carefully around the inside, but I think I should be able to improve them more by massaging the surrounds with glycerine oil, as suggested in another thread I read.

I will be trying that in the next few weeks.

As I've read in another thread somewhere, these speakers are unforgettable, once you have heard them. They don't go super loud, but they do go loud enough and sound great with most music. Here are some pictures of the Dovedale 3s. They are keepers!

 

[Gang-Twanger]

Hi,

I just saw this thread and I am so happy I found a thread on Wharfedale speakers. I think the vintage wharfedales don't get their due in the audio forums.

I have a pair of Denton's however one of the purple tweeters is toast. I checked it on my multimeter, and it is open circuit. However, just recently I was learned it is the same as the tweeter in the Dovedale 3, so I will keep my good one for a spare. I bought them at an estate sale and couldn't test them, so I negotiated a reflective price. They were a pain to open up as they were completely sealed, and insulated with a cotton of some kind. I've saved everything.

However I also have a pair of Dovedale 3s that I love. They were the first pair of speakers I found with such clear imaging. It was almost as though the imaging wasn't quite in focus with my other speakers, but when I plugged these into my Yamaha M-40 with a Sony TA 2000f, they had perfectly sharp imaging. It was astounding to hear on my own system in my own space on a pair of speakers that I paid little for. They are in pretty good shape. I do think they can be improved. I find the woofer surrounds are a bit stiff, and they don't go as low as I believe they should. I did improve things by opening them up and replacing the fibre filler more carefully around the inside, but I think I should be able to improve them more by massaging the surrounds with glycerine oil, as suggested in another thread I read.

I will be trying that in the next few weeks.

As I've read in another thread somewhere, these speakers are unforgettable, once you have heard them. They don't go super loud, but they do go loud enough and sound great with most music. Here are some pictures of the Dovedale 3s. They are keepers!

Those look like they're in great shape. A lot of people seem to like that model for jazz and classic-rock (I hear they sound really-nice with a tube amp or receiver... I used my W60E's with an early '70's Sansui since they seem to respond to the warmth). And those, like every small-to-medium-sized box-type speaker they made before them, should also benefit from horizontal placement (That will give you a wider soundstage and a better, more-coherent, cohesive response, particularly the bass). My W60E's, which are similar in design to the Dovedale 3's, definitely sound better that way (tweeter and mid on left, woofer on right, if you're facing them... Not mirror-imaged and about 25-28 inches off the floor... 18 inches for vertical placement).

You should check out one of the earlier, ported models from the early to mid '60's. Same ultra-musical vibe, but more-British-sounding.

 

[BilboBaggins]

Those look like they're in great shape. A lot of people seem to like that model for jazz and classic-rock (I hear they sound really-nice with a tube amp or receiver... I used my W60E's with an early '70's Sansui since they seem to respond to the warmth). And those, like every small-to-medium-sized box-type speaker they made before them, should also benefit from horizontal placement (That will give you a wider soundstage and a better, more-coherent, cohesive response, particularly the bass). My W60E's, which are similar in design to the Dovedale 3's, definitely sound better that way (tweeter and mid on left, woofer on right, if you're facing them... Not mirror-imaged and about 25-28 inches off the floor... 18 inches for vertical placement).

You should check out one of the earlier, ported models from the early to mid '60's. Same ultra-musical vibe, but more-British-sounding.

Yes, they are in great shape! That was what drew me to them. I bought them without hearing them, and have no regrets. They play everything I've tried (and I have very eclectic tastes) except for Led Zeppelin, Billy Idol and such.

I will be hooking them up to a Kenwood Supreme 500. I think they will be a very good match. I was surprised when I got my Sony TA 2000F at just how much current they can draw without pushing to distortion. They are about as current hungry as my JBL L100T or my Kef Concerto.

I'm not sure if I'll be able to place them on their sides where they are about to go. Limited options.

I am looking for a pair of them. Not that I need another pair. I test drove a pair of W60E's recently and they were nice. But the seller had them priced a little too rich for me considering the state of the cabinets.

 

[Cadillac Kid]

First pictures of my Wharfedale 60. hmm no oil cap.


On no, I let some of the magic sand out, time to hit the beach.

 

[Gang-Twanger]

First pictures of my Wharfedale 60. hmm no oil cap.

On no, I let some of the magic sand out, time to hit the beach.

Those look just like mine on the inside (except, in mine, the tweeter is on top instead of the woofer). Same cap I found in mine. Turns out it's an early electrolytic. Who knew. Yours must be like '64 or earlier. Those would be a cheap recap, actually. You could put n.o.s. paper-in-oil ones in there for next to nothing. I'm gonna' out them in my W60's when I get the cash (It's bizarre that mine sound the way they do with the original ones, but I still want to get it done).

Don't lose too-much of that sand. Those panels really-work. Stand behind one of them while they're playing, and you'll hear it (or not hear it, actually).

 

[Cadillac Kid]

Since mine have legs, I have one flipped and stacked for the photo. The sand damped box of the W60 reminds me of the loose screw box design on my Harbeth SHL5.

Next I will open the other and see if they are intact.