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What caused the decay of the U.S. auto manufactureres

OldJBL said:
@grillebilly
Toyota and Honda aren't going down the planned obsolescence path like so many other automakers. They are slaying everyone else these days. Five of the top ten selling vehicles in the USA is one of these brands. If it wasn't for pickups, none of the Big Three would be in the top ten.
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I think US auto makers have made gigantic advances. Not saying they have eclipsed competition. Consumers are brand loyal, and there's no doubt a Toyota Corolla was a better car than a Ford Focus or Chevy Citation. Competition has somewhat leveled out, but when you know a good thing you stick with it. Consumers vote with their wallet. If I wanted a reliable daily driver I would buy a Honda. Toyota would be next. That's completely on the shoulders of US manufactures. All that said, the US makes some great cars. The new mid engine Corvette is cheap compared to its competitors. There's plenty of decent cars made in the US. I would love to have a new Cadillac. I don't think planned obsolesce is a design feature. My last 3 cars have been Buicks and they all went 300k without killing me along the way.
I do agree with you on the fact that everything is designed with a profit motive. Building a car that lasts forever and doesn't drain the wallet commands brand loyalty, something that is lost on bean counters.
 
@grillebilly
If not planned obsolescence then maybe design obsolescence. What happens with a lot of car designs these days is engineering obsolescence due to the ability to engineer parts to hold up for the warranty period but then fail relatively often just after. This is due to parts modeling software being very capable these days so parts can be made as inexpensively as possible while meeting a certain design life. Then there are so many systems that are run by the same module and it can not be repaired to fix just the one thing that has failed. This is similar to having to replace the cylinder heads because a coil, spark plug,, etc. has failed. IMO, if a person buying a vehicle these days wants to hedge against out of warranty failures then they need to perform maintenance religiously and in many cases more frequently than the manufacturer recommends for items such as oil, transmission fluid, coolant etc. All most of the manufacturers care about these days is getting a vehicle to 100k miles. Toyota, Honda and some others don't seem to be following this model.
 
The big problem with American cars made within the last 8 years is the amount of Chinese and Mexican manufactured parts that they contain. I see it every day in the police fleet that my facility maintains. Except for the control arm bushings and valve seal issues in the 95 and 96 Crown Vics they were the best police cars that were ever in our fleet right up until they quit building them. The newer Explorers are a joke and the Durangos are so bad we won't even consider buying them. The best PPVs right now are the current gen Tahoes and the 10 speed transmission in those can be a weak spot too.
 
OldJBL said:
@grillebilly
Toyota and Honda aren't going down the planned obsolescence path like so many other automakers. They are slaying everyone else these days. Five of the top ten selling vehicles in the USA is one of these brands. If it wasn't for pickups, none of the Big Three would be in the top ten.
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Maybe but ! Toyota has massive engine recalls that go even into the Lexus line ! Honda has dilution issues causing high oil consumption they’ve taken a pretty big hit in reliability last couple of years ! Maybe they learned to much from domestic brands !
 
ernieb1536 said:
Maybe but ! Toyota has massive engine recalls that go even into the Lexus line ! Honda has dilution issues causing high oil consumption they’ve taken a pretty big hit in reliability last couple of years ! Maybe they learned to much from domestic brands !
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Toyota and Honda have had there issues but overall they are far better than the Big Three offerings. I remember the rusting frames on the Tacomas.
 
Roadrash said:
The big problem with American cars made within the last 8 years is the amount of Chinese and Mexican manufactured parts that they contain.......
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I'm always interested in the "next" part to this.

What is going to happen? What is "someone" going to do about it?

Is the manufacturer going to "get to grips" with their supplier?

Are the "buyers" going to vote with their wallets and buy something else?

If "you" bought a piece of audio equipment and it failed well before its time, what would (did?) you do?
 
OldJBL said:
Toyota and Honda have had there issues but overall they are far better than the Big Three offerings. I remember the rusting frames on the Tacomas.
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Well GM has massive motor issues because of their fuel management systems lifter failures as well as transmision failures Toyota had over 100000 Motors to replace in their tundras as well as some in the Lexus line ! Ford has multiple failures in their complete line of ecoboost motors ! Chrysler , jeep has multiple issues motor , electronics etc ,Kia ,Hyndi has massive motor failure and some catch on fire ! Nissan motor , transmission , electronics ! I wouldn’t want to buy a new car right now !
 
hjames said:
My daily drivers have been Honda for many years - many trouble free miles.
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Same here since acquiring my first, a 1990 Civic Coupe w/ five-speed manual. One of two motor vehicles -- out of the several dozens I've possessed since 1974 -- upon which I bestowed a name; the '90 Civic was named "Leonard", who still lives -- and still runs !!! -- in Santa Barbara (CA) ... I donated him to one of my grad students when I left The States in 2014. Picked up a "France spex" Civic within a couple months of settling in here.
 
I think the culture in the US is the real problem, on so many levels. To get into more detail would require delving into politics, which we can't do here.
 
They did it to themselves. With that said, at least they were smart enough to figure out how bad they screwed up. Now, for the most part, make decent cars.
 
Someone here had mentioned another book The Decline and Fall of the American Automotive Industry (1983) by Brock Yates (who I recall reading for years in Car & Driver magazine). Its a good read but sadly way out of date, ending in the early 80s ... RIP Brock (October 5, 2016)!
 
I think there are several factors.
1. Longevity and service free life of the vehicle. Even the wonderful US made cars of the 1960's would start to fall apart after 100K miles. The engines would run forever but everything else would require annoying continuing replacement. We had a 1998 Toyota RAV4. That car ran and ran. At 150K miles it still had the original clutch, AC, alternator, water pump, tranny, radiator, brake master cylinder and wheel cylinders; stuff that commonly wears out on US made cars. I used to listen to Cartalk on NPR and most of the calls were about American cars.
2. Rust. Here in the Rust Belt it is common to see US made cars that are not that old with rust on them. Japanese made cars usually don't have rust. It's rare to see any rust on them, usually the result of accident repair.
3. Fuel economy.
4. Handling and performance. If you want to drive on twisty turn-y country roads, American cars are no good for spirited driving.
We have a 2014 Honda CRV with over 100K miles on it. It drives like new. The seats have not lost their support, the fabric is like new, there are no rattles or noises going over bumps. We just took it on a 5000 mile trip on Rt66 with no issues. Drove through the desert in 100 degree heat, the temp gauge was on Normal the whole time. We have not had one major repair to it. We've had the front brakes done, the rear are original! This is what I expect from an automobile. We do the maintenance on our cars every year and drive them until they have very high mileage, and they are still working fine when we trade them in.
 
Telecolor 3007 said:
Not even "Chevrolet" Camaro was good at handling?
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I drove a friend's '68 or '69. No. American car companies were late to the party with Mcpherson struts and used sloppy front end design.
Further, I have never replaced ball joints on a Japanese car.
 
The Brock Yates book talks about the substandard paint job on so many of those wanna-be modern cars from Detroit.
They wanted to emulate the jewel finish on many of the imports, which was due to color coats with clear coats on top,
but with US regulations calling for lower solvent emissions, requiring better tech in the painting booths, and or water based paints, it wasn't happening.
Not Invented Here was a strong barrier to improvements, (such as using smaller engines from other divisions).
There is a LOT more to it than that, but thats one factor. refusal to admit any tech from outside motor city ...
 

"What caused the decay of the U.S. auto manufactureres"​


1. Those who make the rules/requirements/regulations.

2. Those who put those people in the position to make those rules/requirements/regulations.

3. Those who purchase the end results regardless.
 
I find it interesting that even in 2025, some people have a mindset that feels like 1978- America can make no good cars and Japan is and always will be better.

That is the extent of "the damage done" to the American car manufacturing industry- the reverberations are still being felt.
 
YY1 said:
I find it interesting that even in 2025, some people have a mindset that feels like 1978- America can make no good cars and Japan is and always will be better.

That is the extent of "the damage done" to the American car manufacturing industry- the reverberations are still being felt.
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Well, yes, a car is a huge investment and who is going to want to take a chance on an American car when they can buy a Japanese car that they like and will last?
 
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