What makes the most impact in sound quality

[Jon_Logan]

THATS why these posts are silly. There never is a real answer

....maybe there is no answer? Maybe that's okay? Maybe many people give their opinions and it brings new information to some? It won't be new to everybody, but I think it's okay for most people.

You can turn the channel. Nobody is forcing you here to torture you.

Or you can answer the topic question according to your experiences. IMO

 

[marc mc]

But that's no answer. You say the carburetor is most important, but take away the gas tank, and its just a paper weight.

THAT is why these posts are silly. There is never a real answer.

If you would read my posts you would be able to understand I'm not trying to change minds or prove something. I don't think it can be done. If you think sharing ideas for people that are new to audio is silly then your wrong.

This is one of the reasons I have said that the biggest loss to this hobby is the bricks and morter audio stores. There used to be a day when you could go to an audio store and hear great gear. Sadly that day is gone or never happened for the modern audiophile.

BTW zombie, what do you consider to be the best TT and CDP you have owned. And the best you have heard. Please list.

marc mc

 

[zombie1210]

I agree. The loss of so many brick and mortar stores is a great loss indeed.

I think the best CD player I've heard was a Krell Evo.....I think it was a 505.

The best TT was a VPI Scoutmaster. Don't remember the cart.

Speakers were Meridians, but I don't remember the model.

An old friend that lives a couple states away, has that system.

 

[SWL3600]

I agree. The loss of so many brick and mortar stores is a great loss indeed.

I think the best CD player I've heard was a Krell Evo.....I think it was a 505.

The best TT was a VPI Scoutmaster. Don't remember the cart.

Speakers were Meridians, but I don't remember the model.

An old friend that lives a couple states away, has that system.

What was his name?

 

[zombie1210]

Why?

 

[marc mc]

I agree. The loss of so many brick and mortar stores is a great loss indeed.

I think the best CD player I've heard was a Krell Evo.....I think it was a 505.

The best TT was a VPI Scoutmaster. Don't remember the cart.

Speakers were Meridians, but I don't remember the model.

An old friend that lives a couple states away, has that system.

And now what you have owned?

marc mc

 

[zombie1210]

So.....you are expecting me to stick my head in your noose? You sneaky devil, you...

Hah!!!!

Lets just say nothing as extravagant as what my buddy owns. But I've been buying, selling, and trading audio gear since about 1969, so its been quite a list.

Each system was different. Some had Marantz receivers. Some had Sansui. Some had Pioneer or Marantz separates. Carver, Phase Linear.....I've owned turntables from Technics, Kenwood, Thorens, Dual, and some others. CDP's came much later, and I doubt I've spent more than $500 on one. I much prefer the sound of vinyl. Hell, even a good reel to reel. LOTS of speakers, from many manufacturers.

I've been around systems that cost more than a nice car. None of mine were that much. But I know what they sound like.

But none of this really has anything to do with the topic. Its just you, trying to discredit me somehow. That's fine. But I stand by my opinion that it is the sum of all the parts that make a system.

 

[RichPA]

Let's keep to the topic here, and talk about audio, not about other members. OK?

 

[cwall99]

5- Darkness of room
I need a pitch dark room, otherwise the illusion is gone.

Now, see, to me, this is just plain silly. Light levels can't possibly interact with sound.

However, that being said, I do understand that, for your listening pleasure, if you need to have the room as dark as possible so that there's no visual stimuli to remind you that, "Ooops, that's right. I'm NOT at a concert after all," well, then I can understand that.

I just don't need to close my eyes for my system to totally rock. The imaging exists whether my eyes are open or closed. Whether it's night or day. Whether the lights are on or off.

 

[cwall99]

One must ask; if a tree falls in the woods, and no one is there to hear it, what is the quality of the sound?

Well, that depends on just where, exactly, that tree falls in relationship to where the potential listener is standing, and whether that listener's shoes have soles that dampen out other ambient vibrations thus sonically isolating the falling tree's audio signal to the listener's ears.

Additionally, what is the temperature in the woods that day? The relative humidity (after all, despite the myth that air is heavy when it's humid, the mixture of gases we commonly know as air is actually denser than water vapor so if it's a day with lower humidity, the sound will travel faster and more clearly than on a humid day)? Is the wind blowing? If it is, from what direction?

Are there birds around raising a ruckus and, thus, destroying the illusion? Is it night or day? A full moon? A neap tide?

And is my cartridge MM or MC?

 

[cwall99]

One must ask; if a tree falls in the woods, and no one is there to hear it, what is the quality of the sound?

Well, that depends on just where, exactly, that tree falls in relationship to where the potential listener is standing, and whether that listener's shoes have soles that dampen out other ambient vibrations thus sonically isolating the falling tree's audio signal to the listener's ears.

Additionally, what is the temperature in the woods that day? The relative humidity (after all, despite the myth that air is heavy when it's humid, the mixture of gases we commonly know as air is actually denser than water vapor so if it's a day with lower humidity, the sound will travel faster and more clearly than on a humid day)? Is the wind blowing? If it is, from what direction?

Are there birds around raising a ruckus and, thus, destroying the illusion? Is it night or day? A full moon? A neap tide?

And is my cartridge MM or MC?

But most importantly... does the tree sound good as it falls? Can I dance to it?

 

[niklasthedol]

zombie1210...your on a roll!!!!!

Good sounding speakers + good sounding amp = good sounds.

You forgot the source and the room.

"dolph"

 

[niklasthedol]

Now, see, to me, this is just plain silly. Light levels can't possibly interact with sound.

However, that being said, I do understand that, for your listening pleasure, if you need to have the room as dark as possible so that there's no visual stimuli to remind you that, "Ooops, that's right. I'm NOT at a concert after all," well, then I can understand that.

I just don't need to close my eyes for my system to totally rock. The imaging exists whether my eyes are open or closed. Whether it's night or day. Whether the lights are on or off.

I don't really care if my eyes are open or closed but nobody mentioned the fact that listening with open mouth truly changes listening to the better.
This is even known and used by military scouts and sailors watchmen (in particular in fog).

So Open Mouth listening is another impact on sound quality.

"dolph"

 

[doucanoe]

This is one of the reasons I have said that the biggest loss to this hobby is the bricks and morter audio stores. There used to be a day when you could go to an audio store and hear great gear. Sadly that day is gone or never happened for the modern audiophile.


marc mc

I wouldn't say it's gone. You just need to seek it out. I realize that it's more difficult in some locations than others but it's out there. We are fortunate to have three outfits here in town that can provide more than just a glimpse of high end.

I will say this though. I am many times shocked when I meet local audio guys who claim they have never been to any of them or have even heard of them for that matter.

Even if you are not in the market or don't believe in the merit of new "high end", I think it's a great way to educate yourself and ear if anything else.

RC

 

[AngelRa]

Now, see, to me, this is just plain silly. Light levels can't possibly interact with sound.

However, that being said, I do understand that, for your listening pleasure, if you need to have the room as dark as possible so that there's no visual stimuli to remind you that, "Ooops, that's right. I'm NOT at a concert after all," well, then I can understand that.

I just don't need to close my eyes for my system to totally rock. The imaging exists whether my eyes are open or closed. Whether it's night or day. Whether the lights are on or off.

Yes, light does not interact with sound. Now go and try it. It is cheap and fun. Now, closing your eyes in an illuminated room does not works, make sure the room is pitch dark, even the equipment lights can ruin the illusion.

 

[marc mc]

I wouldn't say it's gone. You just need to seek it out. I realize that it's more difficult in some locations than others but it's out there. We are fortunate to have three outfits here in town that can provide more than just a glimpse of high end.

I will say this though. I am many times shocked when I meet local audio guys who claim they have never been to any of them or have even heard of them for that matter.

Even if you are not in the market or don't believe in the merit of new "high end", I think it's a great way to educate yourself and ear if anything else.

RC

I speak in generalities RC. I understand their is still stores operating. I have a friend that owns a store that sells the ultra high end. I can hear the state of the art anytime and have for 25 years.

But outside the big cities there is very few left. And it is easy for me to tell when a guy has never heard high end gear. Or worse thinks it's a rip off. My point with Zombie was if you have never owned or really heard it, how can you tell. And if the best TT a guy has heard is the Scoutmaster at his buddies. He will not understand what I'm talking about. I have said it everytime these threads pop up. My bias was developed while listening to the Goldmunds, Micro's, Mapelnolls and other monsters from the 80's. And that is where I'm heading. I got to hear the signiture mapelnoll again last week. Holy Cripes! you can't believe it's a record. His other table is a Gyrodec SE and the mapelnoll is better by a stupid amount.

marc mc

 

[kconnor]

If the difference between two high quality amplifiers (or CDP's for that matter) is more than very subtle, one of them needs to be repaired.

 

[cwall99]

If the difference between two high quality amplifiers (or CDP's for that matter) is more than very subtle, one of them needs to be repaired.

I think I made this point in another thread... apparently, at least among vintage gear, there is a difference among amplifiers (or receivers). It's very common here on AK to read comments by members about a Sansui sound or a Marantz sound or a Pioneer sound when talking about different amps and receivers.

My question is, "Why is this?" Does each of these brands (or even models within a brand) have a signature sound? If it does, then I would submit that whatever separates the signature sound from the original input signal is a form of error or distortion imparted by the amplifier or receiver.

I've spoken with a number of people who are more knowledgeable than I am, and they all seem to agree that a) these sorts of deviations do exist, b) that these deviations do represent a loss of true fidelity (sorry if that's redundant), and, and this is the one that blows me away, c) that the amplifiers being produced today, even the low end ones, do a better job of amplifying inputs to playable levels without introducing distortion (aka that signature sound).

I attribute that to the fact that we've developed an ear for a sound we like to hear, and that's a complex thing involving speakers, electronics, rooms, our own ears, etc... We have a preference, and our preference isn't necessarily for systems that produce exactly what's on the recorded medium.

 

[kconnor]

That difference that some people may hear between different brands of amplifiers is due to the transfer function characteristics of that particular amplifier circuit. Greatly simplified it is the relationship between the input and output of a system. Carvers’ TFM (transfer function modified) amplifiers typified this concept. Amplifiers specifications are usually derived from driving power resistors that have low capacitive and inductive reactance . That does not represent the real world of driving loudspeakers where back EMF, inductance, capacitance, phase angles etc. wreck havoc on the output stages and try to force them to become non-linear. As Bob Carver has shown, the transfer function of an amplifier can be quantified and it is distortion. Tube amplifiers have a TF that some people find pleasing. Two amplifiers with the same transfer function will always sound the same even if one is solid state and the other is tubed. Even with that being said, the disparity in sound between different brands of amplifiers is not as overt as some would have you believe. If it is more than subtle take them to the shop and find out which one needs to be fixed. By the way, the Crown D-75 can hold its own with any amplifier around in terms of accurate transfer function.

 

[niklasthedol]

That difference that some people may hear between different brands of amplifiers is due to the transfer function characteristics of that particular amplifier circuit. Greatly simplified it is the relationship between the input and output of a system. Carvers’ TFM (transfer function modified) amplifiers typified this concept. Amplifiers specifications are usually derived from driving power resistor with low capacitive and inductive reactance. That does not represent the real world of driving loudspeakers where EMF, inductance, capacitance, phase angles etc. wreck havoc on the output stages and try to force them to become non-linear. The transfer function can be quantified and it is distortion. Tube amplifiers have a TF that some people find pleasing. Two amplifiers with the same transfer function will always sound the same even if one is solid state and the other is tubed. Even with that being said, the disparity in sound between different brands of amplifiers is not as overt as some would have you believe. If it is more than subtle take them to the shop and find out which one needs to be fixed. By the way, the Crown D-75 can hold its own with any amplifier around in terms of accurate transfer function.

TF?
:thmbsp: :thmbsp:

That was good one.

Great amplifiers do NOT add any change to the input.
The trick about High Fidelity is, weirdly enough, Fidelity.

So let's just hold on to your TF for a second, but no more than that.
All those amps with more or less TF, whether it happens by adding character or removing details, would, in my terminology, easy make it to the dumpster.

"dolph"