What Market Segment?
- Thread starter Theophilus Punoval
- Start date
Theophilus Punoval
The Queen says it's OK...
There was an obvious joke, hence the "ahem". See, the use of the word stereotyping in a forum dedicated in large part to stereo equipment was intended to bring a bit of humor, admittedly a very little bit, into the proceedings.
So, what's your opinion of AR 2ax?
Theophilus Punoval
The Queen says it's OK...
Yo!
Hey, guys, let's not get into a pissing contest here. I asked a legitimate question and wanted honest opinions about AR 2ax speakers, not cars, pretensions or Miles Davis. Can we get back to that and stop the sandbox nonsense? C'mon....it's Christmas. Peace on Earth and all that.
God help the world when all of a sudden the voice of sweet reason is me.
Hey, guys, let's not get into a pissing contest here. I asked a legitimate question and wanted honest opinions about AR 2ax speakers, not cars, pretensions or Miles Davis. Can we get back to that and stop the sandbox nonsense? C'mon....it's Christmas. Peace on Earth and all that.
God help the world when all of a sudden the voice of sweet reason is me.
Dan ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ
Peanut Head
Dan ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ
Peanut Head
Agreed.
moinau
Je me Souviens
AR-2 1957 to 1964 96.00$
AR-2A 1959 to 1969 122.00$
AR-2X -Early- 1964 to 1970 102.00$
AR-2AX -Early- 1964 to 1970 165.00$
AR-2X -Late- 1970 to 1970 Price: Unknown Prob same as the early one
AR-2AX -Late- 1970 to 1976 Price: Unknown "
From the beginning they were not aimed at any particular market. After a while, in general, people put them in the Jazz, Classical, and easy listening market, and soon after the company ran with it, advertising them as perfect for Jazz.
How do they sound, I don't know, never heard these models.
Although Miles Davis was a very pretentious musician, albeit an excellent pretentious musician, does not mean that people who like his music are pretentious.
I don't think I'm, you'll have to ask my wife, she knows me best. By the way I drive a 1999 Mazda 626.
I've now added three big grin, couldn't at first, because you can't when editing.
I think most if not all, were having a wee bit of fun.:thmbsp:
Seriously though, here is some info on the AR...
Art K.
The Voodoo You Do!
Indeed. I don't know anyone here who is like that so why bring it up. That's what I found/find odd. It is divisive and it is an us/them statement and I will point those out when I stumble onto them.
As far as the AR's, they seem pretty typical of their time and origins. Emphasis on a warm midrange. Easy to listen to if not the last word relative to resolution.
The OP asked about the market segment the speaker was aimed at and market segments are by their nature a divisive thing. You know as well as I that a big part of marketing is indentifying groups of people and then appealing to the aspirations, fantasies and self image of those groups. That's simply the way of things.
I think the comparison to Advents and Boston Acoustics might be helpful to the OP, and I'd add the KLH 6 to that group as another reference point.
I agree with the warm midrange, easy to listen to, and not the last word in resolution comment, with the further comment that the 2 and the 2x have a less etended and even response than the 2a and the 2ax. But the 2 and 2a might have a bit more get up and go in the midrange, though that might also be more coloration.
Compared to the Advent the 2ax sounds a bit wooden, but also warmer or sweeter in the midrange, more like the KLH 6 in that regard. If you like a more modern clean sound, than the BA and Advent would probably please more. I think the Advent might have deeper bass, but whether it would sound deeper psychologically would depend alot on location and program -- I wouldn't choose one over the other for that reason. The Advent bass might be better resolved, though.
I think all of the AR2 series are prettier than the Advent, even the bullnose Advent, though it is nice.
I agree with the warm midrange, easy to listen to, and not the last word in resolution comment, with the further comment that the 2 and the 2x have a less etended and even response than the 2a and the 2ax. But the 2 and 2a might have a bit more get up and go in the midrange, though that might also be more coloration.
Compared to the Advent the 2ax sounds a bit wooden, but also warmer or sweeter in the midrange, more like the KLH 6 in that regard. If you like a more modern clean sound, than the BA and Advent would probably please more. I think the Advent might have deeper bass, but whether it would sound deeper psychologically would depend alot on location and program -- I wouldn't choose one over the other for that reason. The Advent bass might be better resolved, though.
I think all of the AR2 series are prettier than the Advent, even the bullnose Advent, though it is nice.
Theophilus Punoval
The Queen says it's OK...
I always thought successful advertising was supposed to project an image that as many people as possible could aspire to. Or, if we're appealing to a demographic way above my pay grade, "to which as many people as possible could aspire."
At $165 a throw, they were a bit pricey for cost-conscious parties such as I, but not Rolls-Royce expensive. My own opinion, and I could be wrong, is that inclusiveness would be the way to go. At that price point you wouldn't want to limit your customer base to readers of "The Million-Dollar Yacht Trader" magazine.
No offense, but you've begged the question.
I had a nice pair of AR-2ax. Like pretty much every other vintage speaker I've owned, they had their day and it is not today or tomorrow. I never played Miles Davis on them, though. Must have been the secret to enjoying them as much as the hype suggested I would. They sounded very natural as long as nature exists in a box with a blanket over it.
ouch!
ouch!
No I haven't, you just don't like the answer to a question you asked.
Look at AR advertising from the time and make your own decision.
Art K.
The Voodoo You Do!
Yep. Mr Stools, who do you believe they were targeting with the product?
Art K.
The Voodoo You Do!
Tom: I'm not sure what bugs you about AR advertising -- I've always thought it set a sort of gold standard for graceful attractive low key advertising, often with a sense of humor. KLH ads were similar but quirkier. And everynow and then, Klipsch would wade in with ads of equal wit and style. None of them went for the sort of swinging playboy pad thing or the the specs and mumbo jumbo that is more typical of speaker advertisements (then and now).
If the beef is that they were aimed at a well heeled market segment, the only response is that of course they were. Serious hifi is, and was, expensive, and AR did make cheaper speakers, quite a few of them -- the 4, the 7 and the 6 spring to mind, though the later two are a bit later. The ads for the 4 were exactly like the ads for the 1, 2 and 3 -- serious and informative, there was no patronizing of the great unwashed. (Incidentally, the 4x ad featured Judy Collins with her all AR system. She was a much more motivating endorsement for me than Miles Davis, though now I listen to probably as much of him as her.)
If the issue is that you don't think ARs sound good, that's understandable, but you have to put them in their context -- they sounded better, often much better than the similar priced alternatives. Having grown up as an audiophile on ARs, I was stunned at how great a single EV Regency sounded when I got it at a thrift shop in 1975. If the ARs were competing with speakers like the Regency just on sound, sure, you'd have a point. But they weren't -- price and volume mattered. And just a quick look at old magazines has the AR 2 at around 90 bucks to begin with, the 1 at 185 or so,and the 3 at 225 or so. At the same time, the Heath Altec Legato was 325, the Lowther PM 6 in Acousta cabinet was 225, and Quad was 300 (Altec, JBL and EV usually advertised drivers not systems so I didn't come up with prices, but that actually strengthens my case -- you could trot down to Ye Olde HiFi Store and come home with two boxes in your car, ready to go, or have enormous cabinets delivered and then have to stick the components in, part A in part B etc -- christmas eve (and morning) in July! Whee!. Which do you suppose appealed to those 'real' unpretentious people whose feelings we are protecting?)
If the beef is that they were aimed at a well heeled market segment, the only response is that of course they were. Serious hifi is, and was, expensive, and AR did make cheaper speakers, quite a few of them -- the 4, the 7 and the 6 spring to mind, though the later two are a bit later. The ads for the 4 were exactly like the ads for the 1, 2 and 3 -- serious and informative, there was no patronizing of the great unwashed. (Incidentally, the 4x ad featured Judy Collins with her all AR system. She was a much more motivating endorsement for me than Miles Davis, though now I listen to probably as much of him as her.)
If the issue is that you don't think ARs sound good, that's understandable, but you have to put them in their context -- they sounded better, often much better than the similar priced alternatives. Having grown up as an audiophile on ARs, I was stunned at how great a single EV Regency sounded when I got it at a thrift shop in 1975. If the ARs were competing with speakers like the Regency just on sound, sure, you'd have a point. But they weren't -- price and volume mattered. And just a quick look at old magazines has the AR 2 at around 90 bucks to begin with, the 1 at 185 or so,and the 3 at 225 or so. At the same time, the Heath Altec Legato was 325, the Lowther PM 6 in Acousta cabinet was 225, and Quad was 300 (Altec, JBL and EV usually advertised drivers not systems so I didn't come up with prices, but that actually strengthens my case -- you could trot down to Ye Olde HiFi Store and come home with two boxes in your car, ready to go, or have enormous cabinets delivered and then have to stick the components in, part A in part B etc -- christmas eve (and morning) in July! Whee!. Which do you suppose appealed to those 'real' unpretentious people whose feelings we are protecting?)
Hey, can we get back to audio fidelity and forget about the consumer profiling? I admit I grew up in a community that drove new Volvo's and many homes had KLH, AR and Advent. While they may not have reproduced the music we played in the manner we wanted, they were the speakers we had available, and they provided the sound of our generation. I didn't care for Miles Davis at 15 but appreciate his craft now at 53. I'm grateful that we can enjoy new and old music on both current and vintage equipment. Otherwise we might as well be deaf.