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When an audio company craps on another and it backfires.

tomlinmgt said:
So a dealer decides his darling brand needs to be championed and he takes it upon himself to draw his sword and beckon for a crowd? Then this appears to me to be little more than half an hour of dramatic shilling.
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There's a lot of truth in that video and facts were pointed out. Your arm isn't being twisted to watch the video or respond to this thread.
 
techguy0192 said:
There's a lot of truth in that video and facts were pointed out. Your arm isn't being twisted to watch the video or respond to this thread.
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True, but you said it was an "epic retort from one company to another". Is Kevin employed by Prima Luna? I thought he was just a dealer. :dunno:
 
tomlinmgt said:
True, but you said it was an "epic retort from one company to another". Is Kevin employed by Prima Luna? I thought he was just a dealer. :dunno:
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Yes, the level of detail, facts presented, and effort that went into the video was pretty high. Kevin was the 1st US importer and helped grow the dealer base across the US, providing direct advisement on product design and distribution.

https://www.primaluna-usa.com/about
 
arts said:
Ah yes, Kevin Deal. Please refer to the following for characterization and clarification:

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/audio-karma-glossary.256404/page-7#post-10867251
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Thank you. I'll accept that as a compliment. And stand by my words that there are no new designs, meaning topologies. But there's no shortage of guys that are former nuclear submarine engineers that want to sell magic boxes.

The reason for my video is that guy has called cathode bias amps auto-bias, stated that their incredible power supplies regulating screen and plate voltage would result in lifetime power tubes (on Audiokarma BTW) https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/tubes-for-everyman.705079/page-3

Then if you would WATCH the video, you will see his idea of a new autobias design he charges $1k upcharge for. If you don't care about that kind of stuff, that's fine. It's the noobies that get hurt.

I ignored most all of it until he took shots at PrimaLuna in one video, then another, talking smack over and over. The reason is PrimaLuna I suspect is the biggest selling tube integrated in America, and our other products are on fire, and have been since 2003. And it's all because of parts and engineering. Period.
 
Frank Sol said:
@Kevin Deal

Happy New Year
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Hey man thank you. And as for the cute comment about me being a bullsh*t artist from Art, I don't BS anyone, and have no need to. I've built PrimaLuna into the place that it clearly deserves and helped direct it into the most beloved and well-built tube brand in America.

And I have taken Upscale Audio to become a place where we are honest and straightforward, resulting in double-digit growth every year and in recent years most likely becoming the largest two-channel specialty dealer in the country. I hire the best experts as salespeople and they don't work on commission. I have a Store Manager that knows tubes and audio better than most anyone and is an EE to boot, two former Matinlogan employees, one of them management, a former analog expert from Sumiko who held responsibility for designing cartridges, the list goes on.

And if anyone here is super technical, we're still hiring. I'm saying all this stuff because it's "cute" to simply call someone a bullsh*t artist, and certainly easier to do that than it was for me to build this company employing over 30 people in these 26 years.
 
it's a pissing contest. Kevin could have said more by saying less. i do very much like the prima luna products as well as many others.
 
Kosinki said:
Seems like just another mass produced, over designed, boring, big power amplifier to me. Snooze.
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I heard one driving KEF Blades. <Very> nice sound. The amplifier wasn't all that expensive either, around $3000 as I recall; many integrated amps cost significantly more. I've been toying with the idea buying a tube integrated and PL is one of the units on my mind. Also Rogue, Black Ice and Luxman.
 
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Kevin Deal said:
Thank you. I'll accept that as a compliment. And stand by my words that there are no new designs, meaning topologies. But there's no shortage of guys that are former nuclear submarine engineers that want to sell magic boxes.

The reason for my video is that guy has called cathode bias amps auto-bias, stated that their incredible power supplies regulating screen and plate voltage would result in lifetime power tubes (on Audiokarma BTW) https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/tubes-for-everyman.705079/page-3

Then if you would WATCH the video, you will see his idea of a new autobias design he charges $1k upcharge for. If you don't care about that kind of stuff, that's fine. It's the noobies that get hurt.

I ignored most all of it until he took shots at PrimaLuna in one video, then another, talking smack over and over. The reason is PrimaLuna I suspect is the biggest selling tube integrated in America, and our other products are on fire, and have been since 2003. And it's all because of parts and engineering. Period.
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Good Job Kevin
 
nefertem7 said:
Good Job Kevin
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Thanks. Sorry if I was a little sensitive. Not used to being called names by someone I do not know. I'll do a follow up video explaining I don't know where the stuff was made in the past, and that I suspect they are making it here now. I don't want to imply anything else as it would be unfair and frankly, how wold I know anyway.

The transformers look like they were made by Heyboer, so they are US-made though the ones they sell on Mojotone aren't exactly expensive. I don't mean them hard. I actually warned them more than once to leave PrimaLuna out of your "story".
 
hifitommy said:
it's a pissing contest. Kevin could have said more by saying less. i do very much like the prima luna products as well as many others.
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That’s what I was attempting to say earlier. Many of us had never heard of the other brand until he posted a 32 minute video about them. Probably the best advertising they’ve ever had.
 
BamaBilly said:
That’s what I was attempting to say earlier. Many of us had never heard of the other brand until he posted a 32 minute video about them. Probably the best advertising they’ve ever had.
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I was aware of Raven. But to your point, they have sorta fallen off the radar. A lot of new audio companies end up just being a flash in the pan.
 
techguy0192 said:
I was aware of Raven. But to you're point, they have sorta fallen off the radar. A lot of new audio companies end up just being a flash in the pan.
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Oh I have no doubt some of us had heard of them. And just to be clear Prima Luna has been on my list of “check out if/when possible for over a year now. Although being in Alabama that probably means having to buy one.
 
Well then, I guess I'll play devil's advocate here and chime in regarding the Raven product. I've heard a few different Raven integrated amps on a few different speaker systems including Legacy Aeris and the result has always been outstanding. The case work is attractive and feels substantial. Never seen one with its "pants down", so can't comment on the internal construction. Better or worse than Prima Luna??? Can't comment on that either as I don't have much experience with any PL product...heard an integrated powering a pair of speakers I was auditioning. Wasn't familiar enough with the speakers to comment on the sonic characteristics of the electronics, but it sounded nice enough.

My take away from all this...competition in the market place is a good thing. So is accurate information, so I don't see any ethical issue with Kevin's video. But it does come across a bit desperate...which I don't really understand as my guess would be that Raven isn't cutting into the sale of PL products to any significant degree. Maybe I'm wrong...and if that's the case, more power to Raven for earning market share.
 
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