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When an audio company craps on another and it backfires.

tomlinmgt said:
...which I don't really understand as my guess would be that Raven isn't cutting into the sale of PL products to any significant degree. Maybe I'm wrong...and if that's the case, more power to Raven for earning market share.
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You are probably right on this. I can't say that I see Raven taking the PL share of the market. With that said, this video will probably make a hell of a negative dent in Raven product sales, there's no way it couldn't. The video Kevin made present facts, not emotion, and ripped Raven a new one. It will be interesting to see a video response from Raven Dave. Kevin had a right to stand up to false claims that were being made about his product. Where Raven Audio miscalculated was taking shots at one of the biggest dealers/products in the US with a significant presence on YouTube - mess with the bull, get the horns sorta thing here.
 
techguy0192 said:
Nope, never even owned a PrimaLuna.

I enjoyed the video, shared it, and call things like I see it. If someone has a problem with that it's their problem, not mine.
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Ha no problem at all you’re just adamant that it was landslide victory. Even though a few disagree you seem set on convincing them otherwise. It’s up to the viewer who wins, not you.
 
let's see.......Kevin Deal #1 PrimaLuna fan boy , Zzzzzzzzz :boring:

Personally, I'll take Mark Obrien and Rogue Audio any day !!
 
techguy0192 said:
Just firing back at what I perceived to be a wiseguy reply from you. Feel free to search my post history here. You'll find that I've never pumped PL or even talked about it for that matter.
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Wiseguy? I have absolutely no idea how anything I’ve said could be perceived that way. Because I disagree? I’m lost
 
I skipped here to the end, though I'm sure the 'cussin and discussion will go on. I looked up "Chita, Texas" on Bing Maps, and the place is a few farm-looking buildings - a spot along the road. There is no discernible downtown, city center or business district. I can't imagine an audio manufacturer being there. I'm calling bulls__t on Raven Audio.
 
I've got a PrimaLuna but I've also got three other tube amps as well as a couple of solid state amps. I would be willing to bet 9 out of 10 audiophiles couldn't hear a difference between PrimaLuna, Raven or Rogue in a blind test (provided they're all set up the same). It's a shame that people always have to take sides on these things because all three companies provide great value and quality.
 
dcgibby said:
I've got a PrimaLuna but I've also got three other tube amps as well as a couple of solid state amps. I would be willing to bet 9 out of 10 audiophiles couldn't hear a difference between PrimaLuna, Raven or Rogue in a blind test (provided they're all set up the same). It's a shame that people always have to take sides on these things because all three companies provide great value and quality.
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Well said, you're right.
 
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Similar amps may sound differently similar, and the differences may or may not be significant for an individual listener. Priorities vary.
 
I will say one thing about PrimaLuna. I bought my amp used and had questions about the fuse in the unit. I emailed PrimaLuna about the correct value and received an answer almost immediately. Other follow up questions were answered quickly and efficiently as well. This is for a discontinued model that I bought used. I thought it was pretty good customer service.
 
dcgibby said:
I've got a PrimaLuna but I've also got three other tube amps as well as a couple of solid-state amps. I would be willing to bet 9 out of 10 audiophiles couldn't hear a difference between PrimaLuna, Raven or Rogue in a blind test (provided they're all set up the same). It's a shame that people always have to take sides on these things because all three companies provide great value and quality.
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A voice of reason. If you think you've heard a good tube amp that sounds better than another, you are either kidding yourself or one of the amps has a problem. The only way to compare to competently designed properly operating push-pull tube amps is the same room, same speakers, same output tubes, instantaneously and level-matched within .5dB. I've been doing this for a living for 45 years, and according to my audiologist, I (thankfully) have the hearing of a 12-year-old. I can't do it. Your mind will trick you. Whatever is playing louder will sound better.

You can hook and unhook speakers from a live tube amp if you are careful. Some may need dummy loads.

I did just this for some guys on Audio Aylum as well as Bob Levy from Positive feedback / LAOCAS. We had an ARC VSI75, Dialogue Premium running four KT150's so it had the same output tubes as the ARC, and an HP running eight stock EL34's. As I recall the vore was 5 for the DiaLogue Premium, 3 for the HP, and 0 for the ARC. BUT what was most shocking was how close they all sounded to each other, because they are ALL good. Without LOOKING for a difference you would not find it.

Then lastly, you always have to consider the condition of the tubes. Newbies take home a new tube amp to try it and compare it to their old unit with worn-out tubes. Or different output tubes.

Sometimes an amp with better bass and highs simply has a higher output impedance so you get a nice rise in the top and bottom. It's tough for the consumer. But you don't have to be an engineer to see build quality.
 
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Kevin Deal said:
A voice of reason. If you think you've heard a good tube amp that sounds better than another, you are either kidding yourself or one of the amps has a problem. The only way to compare to competently designed properly operating push-pull tube amps is the same room, same speakers, same output tubes, instantaneously and level-matched within .5dB. I've been doing this for a living for 45 years, and according to my audiologist, I (thankfully) have the hearing of a 12-year-old. I can't do it. Your mind will trick you. Whatever is playing louder will sound better.

You can hook and unhook speakers from a live tube amp if you are careful. Some may need dummy loads.

I did just this for some guys on Audio Aylum as well as Bob Levy from Positive feedback / LAOCAS. We had an ARC VSI75, Dialogue Premium running four KT150's so it had the same output tubes as the ARC, and an HP running eight stock EL34's. As I recall the vore was 5 for the DiaLogue Premium, 3 for the HP, and 0 for the ARC. BUT what was most shocking was how close they all sounded to each other, because they are ALL good. Without LOOKING for a difference you would not find it.

Then lastly, you always have to consider the condition of the tubes. Newbies take home a new tube amp to try it and compare it to their old unit with worn-out tubes. Or different output tubes.

Sometimes an amp with better bass and highs simply has a higher output impedance so you get a nice rise in the top and bottom. It's tough for the consumer. But you don't have to be an engineer to see build quality.
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Hmm, Tubes. You got Groove Tubes, Ruby Tubes, and then what I call "Grooby Tubes"!

It's an old story, with an old man in his tube shop. I needed a single 12DW7 for my Ampeg V4B Bass Amp! LOL Buying tubes, sheesh!
 
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