When to replace old (Classic) equipment

[JohnVF]

Be careful!

If what you have gives you great pleasure, then new replacements both in part or whole might not. Plus the fact that you usually take a hit if you try to resell the new.

If it is possible try to audition in a home setting.

In general playing around with the good new stuff is for people with some length in the pocket.

It is a very SAFE stance to undertake preventative maintenance with what you have thus guaranting a continuity of your "sound".

You can also buy "newer but used" with lower risk. I know I can probably sell my Levinson amp for what I paid for it or more, meaning that the money tied up in it isn't much different than money sitting in a bank account. But that's only true of certain items. Levinson, McIntosh, Krell, and the like tend to hold their value once the initial depreciation hit take by the first buyer. Same for some classic vintage gear, too, of course. But I certainly thought of that when buying the Levinson 432. It was at the time selling used for a grand or two more than I paid for it...and this is an amp from 5 or 6 years ago. You don't have to go all the way back to the '70s to play the depreciation game and win. Many here will look upon new-gear runners as "snobs" when in reality, I could sell my big new amp for more than I paid for it...essentially getting paid to listen to great audio (and to put up with a bunch of $%$# from people telling me all amps sound the same ).

But that's assuming big-money items. There's a lot of quality new gear out there for $1k-$2k that, while not 'cheap', can be expected to pay off over the years in added musical enjoyment. You may take a hit if you sell, but you're dealing with an item with a known history, because it was always in your possession.

 

[JoeESP9]

And when those classic Japanese receivers were being made nobody I knew thought they were the top gear around; most audiophiles (as opposed to people who had a nice stereo) were using Mac, Dynaco, Audio Research, Paoli, Eico, Quad, Crown, Levinson and such. And old at the time Marantz and Fisher tube gear, NOT Marantz and Fisher SS receivers.

We agree on those receivers. When I first came to AK I was really surprised with the whole vintage movement. I never thought all the receivers me and my old time audio buds passed over would achieve cult status.

Now they're considered by some to have been the top gear around at their time. As one who was around and buying gear back then I never considered them the top of anything. I know my buddies didn't either. Neither them nor I have ever owned a receiver.

Even while in the service (1966-1970) I didn't jump on the Japanese receiver/electronics/speakers wagon. I bought a tubed Fisher integrated, AR4's and Benjamin Miracord TT.

 

[www.records]

Ron, I am not sure where you live, but IMO the recommendation to get out and listen to some different gear, new, used and vintage. In the meantime enjoy your present gear and refamiliarize yourself with how it reproduces your favorite music. If you can attend so live stuff to, although you won't be able to fully reproduce a live performance, you can use it as a comparison when listening. Also, be patient. No need in buying lots of gear if you do it right the first time. Not the path I took, so speaking as a voice of experience.

Welcome to AK.

 

[MWalt]

Very true. It is also kinda funny how people who buy new gear get a free pass to look down on those who like vintage gear. There are plenty of "digs" thrown by both camps, if you ask me. People should feel free to enjoy whatever they want. They should just hold back on the blanket statements like the ones bluesky put forward.

I think the new gear guys that look down on vintage gear are few and far between here on AK. Most of us have had, enjoyed, and cherished vintage gear and still have quite the appreciation for it to include yours truly. Bluesky seems like a nice fellow; he's just very dogmatic about vintage Sansui gear. Nothing wrong with that.

Now if we talk looks, the new leben amps are IMHO the coolest looking ever but I have yet to hear one!

They actually sound better than they look IMHO.

 

[RonC]

I waited to respond so I could digest all the posts. Thank you all for your comments.
The conclusion is: there is no conclusion. I have been tempted by some of the NAD and Cambridge components. I believe that the Cambridge gear is designed in the USA or UK and made in China, but with Western quality control. However, the affordable (to me) NAD and Cambridge preamps, amps and integrated amps give up some 125 to 150 Watts to the 200 RMS Watt Adcom. Electrostatics like my Martin Logans are rather demanding of voltage, particularly when it drops to 4 or even 2 ohms, so there has to be a generous power supply and plenty of headroom. I wonder if the NAD and Cambridge 75 watt units are up to the demands.

As tempting as the NAD and Cambridge are, I have been enjoying my current combination thoroughly. As some have said here, there is risk in breaking up the current synergy. Could it be better? Certainly. Could I really mess up the pleasant combination. Possibly.

I think I will read the audio forums, magazines, and lust after all that exorbitantly priced systems that are beyond reach, then come back to my staid, old system......Then again, those Cambridge amps sure are tempting.

Ron

 

[bluesky]

No disrespect but what a load of crap. The OPs vintage gear was purchased when new. Since when is an Adcom 555 amp "fun to look at"? Broken brand new? just what does that mean? Come on man.

cubdog

With all due respect,
I've bought so many items in the last 6 years that were broken brand new right out of the brand new box. Take it back to the store. I even bought a toilet seat that was broken brand new from Lowes. Yes...broken brand new toilet seat! Not a load of crap.

I bought a 'new' 5.1 amp for the family room, what a piece of junk that Sony was, definately broken brand new. I took it back, they gave me a new one, same 'new' sound...broken brand new. Maybe it's the new sound? It's not 'my sound'. I like the vintage 'real' sound.

I'd be very apprehensive on spending $3000+ for a new amp, or anything ' NEW ', because of broken-brand-new right out of the brand-new-box. It's all junk now-a-days.

I have vintage Sansui equipment and it's very fun to look at. It looks like...nice. It's got style. And sounds great too.

I prefer vintage. If you like and want the 'new' stuff...go for it. No problem.

 

[bluesky]

I'd keep the old stuff if its still working well. ESPECIALLY if it works well TOGETHER- Go changing one or 2 pieces, & the "Synergy" is liable to be gone...

Exactly! :thmbsp:

bluesky;
I wonder if you would be so anti new gear if Sansui was still in business. I also wonder what company you would have fixated on if Sansui never existed.

Wish I could buy a brand new Sansui. Made in Japan by Sansui Japan. I don't need any equipment right now.

Bryston. The 20 year warantee is nice! If I didn't have Sansui, I'd go with a new Bryston for an amp. Bryston's sound fine.

 

[JohnVF]

With all due respect,
I've bought so many items in the last 6 years that were broken brand new right out of the brand new box. Take it back to the store. I even bought a toilet seat that was broken brand new from Lowes. Yes...broken brand new toilet seat! Not a load of crap. True. I bought a new 5.1 amp for the family room, what a piece of junk that Sony was, definately broken brand new. I took it back, they gave me a new one, same 'new' sound...broken brand new. Maybe it's the new sound? It's not my sound. I like the vintage 'real' sound.

I'd be very apprehensive on spending $3000+ for a new amp, or anything ' NEW ', because of broken-brand-new right in the brand-new-box. It's all junk.

I have vintage Sansui equipment and it's very fun to look at. It looks like...nice. And sounds great too.

I prefer vintage. And it sounds right too.

If you want the 'new' stuff...knock yourself out. I'm not impressed with anything ' NEW '.

Sounds like your research into new gear was exhaustive. A toilet seat and a cheap 5.1 receiver. Yep, that covers all the bases there.

There is quality new gear out there, as good as anything you have. It's not even something that is debatable. You can feel free not to believe in it, but its like not believing in gravity. You're still going to live in a world where it actually exists.

 

[89grand]

With all due respect,
I've bought so many items in the last 6 years that were broken brand new right out of the brand new box. Take it back to the store. I even bought a toilet seat that was broken brand new from Lowes. Yes...broken brand new toilet seat! Not a load of crap.

I bought a 'new' 5.1 amp for the family room, what a piece of junk that Sony was, definately broken brand new. I took it back, they gave me a new one, same 'new' sound...broken brand new. Maybe it's the new sound? It's not 'my sound'. I like the vintage 'real' sound.

I'd be very apprehensive on spending $3000+ for a new amp, or anything ' NEW ', because of broken-brand-new right out of the brand-new-box. It's all junk now-a-days.

I have vintage Sansui equipment and it's very fun to look at. It looks like...nice. It's got style. And sounds great too.

I prefer vintage. If you like and want the 'new' stuff...go for it. No problem.

Apparently your luck sucks horribly. I don't recall the last piece of modern electronic equipment that quit on me, and most of my stuff is more modern, at least from the 90's and up, except a few pair of speakers from the late 70's and late 80's, DCM Time Windows and JBL L80T's.

Actually I do remember, a BIC sub I bought used took a dump, and a 2002 or so Denon receiver, but Denon H/T receivers seem to be junk based off mine and my brothers experiences with them. Nothing else though has been a problem.

 

[bluesky]

Sounds like your research into new gear was exhaustive. A toilet seat and a cheap 5.1 receiver. Yep, that covers all the bases there.

There is quality new gear out there, as good as anything you have. It's not even something that is debatable. You can feel free not to believe in it, but its like not believing in gravity. You're still going to live in a world where it actually exists.

I like Sansui. I enjoy Sansui. My whole rig is Sansui and sounds fine. It's just what I prefer. You buy what you prefer...right?!

If I wanted a new Bryston amp and some new speakers, I'd just go buy em. It's easy...just buy em. They are for sale.

I never said new gear doesn't sound as good as my amp. I Never said that. Much of it probably sounds better, maybe much better. I LOVE the sound quality of my amp. I don't need a new Bryston.

How good does an amp have to sound?

I haven't researched into any new gear, at all, zero. Absolutely no desire to. I have no reason to. I'm not interested in any new gear,stuff what-so-ever.

I'm sure that much of the new gear/stuff out there is great. My OLD vintage gear works and sounds great too.

Guess it all depends on what you want and desire. It's all personal choice.

I'm not stuck in the 1970s (except for the Sansui thing which I just love). LOL. My amp is 1987 and sounds really nice! :>)

Apparently your luck sucks horribly. I don't recall the last piece of modern electronic equipment that quit on me, and most of my stuff is more modern, at least from the 90's and up, except a few pair of speakers from the late 70's and late 80's, DCM Time Windows and JBL L80T's.

Yes, I've had an extremely hard time with Brand New 'stuff' in the last 5 years. Yeah...it sucks horribly. Couldn't of said it any better myself. It's unreal really. It's beyond bad luck for new stuff. The latest: just bought a new Sony VAIO computer 2 months ago. It's got problems too. But I didn't take it back. Should of. It works ok but it sure ain't perfect. It's got quarks. I'm paranoid about anything new.

Bought:
1. A new sony digital camera. That was really broke, they gave me a new one.
2. A new panosonic cordless telephone. Really don't understand why they couldn't of put a speaker in it that costs more than 25 cents. Cost: $200.
3. The Lowes toilet seat. Give me a break. Made in China.
4. A new DVD player. Played 15 DVDs, it broke, and trashed my favorite DVD in the process. Unplugged it and smashed it on the driveway. Total joy!
5. The Sony 5.1 amp. What a piece of work that is. Pure junk.
6. Garage lights. Really nice, the Chinese just didn't use a primer. The paint fell off.
7. SUV. It's ok but had the transmission, electric window, etc., screw up. Those were costly repairs. And the paint is falling off the dashboard.
8. Got a Sony CD player for the wife. Again Sony. It's horrid. I'm done buying Sony.
9. Wife wanted some Cherwin Vegas. The surrounds rotted out after 3-4 years. Gave em to my musician brother who used them for benches in his practice room. They fell apart. Didn't even work as benchs. LOL. I laughed when he told me that! Even the dog pi$$ed on one of them. I don't blame him! :>) Pieces of junk.
10. Bought a new cresent wrench about a month ago. It jammed up hard. Right in the garbage.
11. New patio set: Paint is falling off one of the chairs, big time. Same as #6. No primer prior painting.
12. You buy new cloths and it shrinks like there's no tomorrow, or twists so it just doesn't fit right, or it just falls apart in the washing machine. Broken brand new.
13. I'm on my 6th hose rack. I know, unreal.
14. And the list just goes on and on. You get the idea. And it's not my imagination. It's reality. It's junk.

All my old stuff works just fine, including my really old pushbutton landline telephone with cord ($25).

I guess that I'm just hoping that the 'new stuff' would work as well as the old stuff. It never does. Doesn't seem to be the case. Anything new, even if it's not broken-brand-new just seems to last for 3, or 4, years and it's over. Just totally wore out or broken. Buy a new one. Sign of the times.

I keep buying the same things over and over and over. It doesn't make any sense. I'm on my 6th hose rack, but found a heavy duty metal one this time. ($150) Amen. Maybe this one will last. I hope. Maybe.

I don't trust anything new.

 

[89grand]

I like Sansui. I enjoy Sansui. My whole rig is Sansui and sounds fine. I never said new gear doesn't sound as good as my amp. Never said that. Much of it probably sounds better, maybe much better. I like my amp.

How good does it have to sound?

I haven't researched into any new gear. No desire to. I have no reason to. I'm not interested in any new gear what-so-ever. I'm totally satisified with what I have.

I'm sure that much of the new gear out there is great.

I think everyone here is fine with how you feel about old Sansui stuff. It's when you start saying modern gear is garbage, is when you seem to start having disagreement.:yes:

I'm the complete opposite of you, I have no desire for old Sansui gear. Whatever, neither is right or wrong.

 

[JohnVF]

I haven't researched into any new gear. No desire to. I have no reason to. I'm not interested in any new gear what-so-ever. I'm totally satisified with what I have.

And yet you feel perfectly inclined to give advice on the subject, when it comes up, of whether somebody should invest in something new.

 

[prisoners]

I waited to respond so I could digest all the posts. Thank you all for your comments.
The conclusion is: there is no conclusion. I have been tempted by some of the NAD and Cambridge components. I believe that the Cambridge gear is designed in the USA or UK and made in China, but with Western quality control. However, the affordable (to me) NAD and Cambridge preamps, amps and integrated amps give up some 125 to 150 Watts to the 200 RMS Watt Adcom. Electrostatics like my Martin Logans are rather demanding of voltage, particularly when it drops to 4 or even 2 ohms, so there has to be a generous power supply and plenty of headroom. I wonder if the NAD and Cambridge 75 units are up to the demands.

As tempting as the NAD and Cambridge are, I have been enjoying my current combination thoroughly. As some have said here, there is risk in breaking up the current synergy. Could it be better? Certainly. Could I really mess up the pleasant combination. Possibly.

I think I will read the audio forums, magazines, and lust after all that exorbitantly priced systems that are beyond reach, then come back to my staid, old system......Then again, those Cambridge amps sure are tempting.

Ron

Sounds like you are absolutely on the right track. I only mentioned NAD and Cambridge as examples of quality new gear for not a lot of money. More power costs more money, that was true then and it's true now. I don't see any reason to rush out and buy new stuff....but it's important to familiarize yourself with what's out there. Otherwise you have no idea where you are with what you have. More often than not after visiting a shop and listening to their gear I conclude that I'd rather have my own, but I still need a reference. Looking and research will always lead to a more informed ear.

 

[gadget73]

As far as I'm concerned, things don't die of old age. They simply need some attention to be brought back to working order. At what point that attention is not worth it is entirely up to you. Also keep in mind that I have radio equipment dating to the late 1920s that is in functional condition, and I regularly use stuff made before 1980. I don't buy new stuff. Not because I dislike new equipment or can't afford it, but I see little need to replace things that work with a newer version of the same thing that does the same job. If I had a stack of nice stuff from the 80s that I liked and filled my needs, I'd use it. If it needed a little work, I'd fix it. If it didn't fit my wants though, it would be sold to buy something that does the job and thats really all there is to it.

 

[JohnVF]

I waited to respond so I could digest all the posts. Thank you all for your comments.
The conclusion is: there is no conclusion. I have been tempted by some of the NAD and Cambridge components. I believe that the Cambridge gear is designed in the USA or UK and made in China, but with Western quality control. However, the affordable (to me) NAD and Cambridge preamps, amps and integrated amps give up some 125 to 150 Watts to the 200 RMS Watt Adcom. Electrostatics like my Martin Logans are rather demanding of voltage, particularly when it drops to 4 or even 2 ohms, so there has to be a generous power supply and plenty of headroom. I wonder if the NAD and Cambridge 75 units are up to the demands.

As tempting as the NAD and Cambridge are, I have been enjoying my current combination thoroughly. As some have said here, there is risk in breaking up the current synergy. Could it be better? Certainly. Could I really mess up the pleasant combination. Possibly.

I think I will read the audio forums, magazines, and lust after all that exorbitantly priced systems that are beyond reach, then come back to my staid, old system......Then again, those Cambridge amps sure are tempting.

Ron

It seems like you have a pretty level head about this, and there isn't a need to rush. One thing you could possibly do is just go to a modern preamp, if you didn't want to replace everything. I've found that it has more of an affect on the sound than the amp (not always, but often).

 

[bluesky]

And yet you feel perfectly inclined to give advice on the subject, when it comes up, of whether somebody should invest in something new.

I'm sure if you enter into the arena of $3500 amps, $4000+ speakers, $1000+ racks, $600+ CD players, $2000+ TTs, etc., the gear is and does sounds great, and it should be of a high quality and reliable too. I would certainly hope so.

But if I did buy a new pair of $4500 speakers I definately take the magnets off the mids and woofers and glue my AlNiCo magnets on!
(only joking of course.)
I may need a new pair of speakers someday. I'd have to research that. But it's not a pressing issue. My 1970 speakers sound fine. But they ain't gonna last forever.


Bryston! :thmbsp:

 

[RonC]

I have to weigh the costs versus benefits, as well. At this point in my 65 year life, I have some left ear tinnitus and the usual, age-related loss of high frequency sensitivity. Can I really hear those subtle differences anymore? It is hard to say. I am finding that imaging has become more important to me than high frequency extension. The elusive "air" around instruments and voices, although, perhaps euphonic distortion, is still noticeable.

I think that my hearing loss was due to playing in an amateur swing band that practiced in a small college classroom. I sat in front of the trumpets. My conclusion: trumpet players are genetically predisposed to playing too loudly.:nono:

Ron

 

[charles 1973]

I recenly purchased a Bryston B100 SST Integrated. For those that don't believe you can buy a good amp today, I disagree. I've found it sound's better than the most optimistic reviews I've read with a transparency thats unsettling sometimes. They are hower expensive. IMO you get what you pay for. A $500 7.1 AVR is unlikely to rival a decent vintage Amp. A TOTL pioneer Elite or Denon AVR however might come awfully close. My Onkyo 575x from 2001 does a really decent job in stereo too, it wass $800 then.

I don't know how much we have to spend to get the SQ of one of Sansui's better Vintage Amps. To be honest, If I wasn't blessed with the fund's to buy new, I'd probably look for a Dual mono Sansui Amp, Integrated if possiable. Pehaps a luxman or Harmon Kardon and have them serviced, at least the ps cap's, detoxing and through cleaning. Sometime used Bryston Amps come up for sale that still has more warrenty left than new amps, that might be a good option. Magnum Dynalab also sells factory reconditioned used Amps that are in the same league, and sold with a warrenty too.

 

[89grand]

I'm sure if you enter into the arena of $3500 amps, $4000+ speakers, $1000+ racks, $600+ CD players, $2000+ TTs, etc., the gear is and does sounds great, and it should be of a high quality and reliable too. I would certainly hope so.

Bryston! :thmbsp:

You don't need to spend that much, just to get something modern that doesn't suck.

 

[bluesky]

You don't need to spend that much, just to get something modern that doesn't suck.

OK

:scratch2:

That's exactly what I'm talking about. How do you do that? :>)


Just saw, 5 months ago, a 1987 Sansui AU-X701 "Vintage Series" amp sell for $94 on eBay. Get a cheaper 'good new modern amp' or the AU-X701 for $94. No comparison in quality build and sound quality. I'd personally grab the X701.

Here we go again!! LOL.