When to replace old (Classic) equipment

[Livin4]

Welcome

To the OP, Ron, Welcome to AK!! :tresbon:

There is both good and bad equipment out there, BOTH old and new. If you like what you have and it sounds good to you, then maintain it. If for some reason you are not happy, replace it.

Me, I am happy with what I have, it's all vintage. Do I want more? Hell yes! There are some really nice amps out there, and some of the speakers sound fantastic. But most of the stuff I've heard that I really like, is out of my price range. And what is in my price range, really doesn't sound much better than what I have. To me. Granted, I don't live in an area that has many places to see and hear really good stuff, but there are a few.

But really, YOU are the ONLY one that matters as to what YOU like. The suggestions here about finding places that will let you demo the equipment in your own home are great :thmbsp: I never even thought of asking that, gives me something to :scratch2: about.


To the rest of you, WTH? A new member shows up, and instead of welcoming him to the site, he gets almost 4 pages of equipment bashing :thumbsdn: even the moderator? gets in on it. And only 2 YES 2 people actually welcome him. I had to go back and re-read again, I just couldn't believe it.

In the end, respect is a 2 way street. If you want people to respect your opinion, then respect theirs, even if you don't agree. If you can't respect theirs, don't expect them to respect yours.

 

[JohnVF]

Here we go again!! LOL.

Here you go again. A bunch of us feel no need to make blind assumptions about that which we have no experience with.

 

[89grand]

OK

:scratch2:

That's exactly what I'm talking about. How do you do that? :>)


Just saw, 5 months ago, a 1987 Sansui AU-X701 "Vintage Series" amp sell for $94 on eBay. Cheaper 'good new amp' or the AU-X701 for $94. No comparison.

Here we go again!! LOL.

Well, I have a 2004 or so h/k receiver that runs perfectly, and has all of the things I needed for my computer setup, a built in DAC, preamp outputs, a sub out, built in crossover and level control with a remote. I bought it used for about $100

In my living room I have a 2011 Pioneer VSX-1121-K that has HDMI switching, built in DAC with a number of Toslink and coaxial digital inputs, preamp outputs, 2 sub out puts, built in room correction with a microphone, built in crossover, Dolby Digital, DTS and every other surround format known to man. An i-Pod connection right on the front, including wireless Apple Airplay (I don't use that stuff because I don't have an i-pod, but many people do), it has an ethernet connection to receive internet radio, and a pretty ballsy built in amp, that I only use for the center channel and surrounds. My late late 90's AudioSource 150 WPC AMP Three (bought used for $120) that runs the JBL mains, and of course the convenience of remote control. I paid about $370 for that.

That's how I did it.:yes:

I just personally have no desire to get up, clean a record, put it on, adjust the volume of my receiver while I'm up, sit back down and listen to one or two songs. Then get up again, take that record off, get another one, and repeat the process again.

I much prefer using a remote to search through my thousands of songs library of digital music, adjust the volume with my remote, and just keep doing that instead.:yes:

 

[bluesky]

Here you go again. A bunch of us feel no need to make blind assumptions about that which we have no experience with.

I'd take the X701 in a heartbeat!!

For me there's no contest between a X701 and a new modern amp under $600.

 

[bluesky]

To the OP, Ron, Welcome to AK!! :tresbon:

There is both good and bad equipment out there, BOTH old and new. If you like what you have and it sounds good to you, then maintain it. If for some reason you are not happy, replace it.

Me, I am happy with what I have, it's all vintage. Do I want more? Hell yes! There are some really nice amps out there, and some of the speakers sound fantastic. But most of the stuff I've heard that I really like, is out of my price range. And what is in my price range, really doesn't sound much better than what I have. To me. Granted, I don't live in an area that has many places to see and hear really good stuff, but there are a few.

But really, YOU are the ONLY one that matters as to what YOU like. The suggestions here about finding places that will let you demo the equipment in your own home are great :thmbsp: I never even thought of asking that, gives me something to :scratch2: about.


To the rest of you, WTH? A new member shows up, and instead of welcoming him to the site, he gets almost 4 pages of equipment bashing :thumbsdn: even the moderator? gets in on it. And only 2 YES 2 people actually welcome him. I had to go back and re-read again, I just couldn't believe it.

In the end, respect is a 2 way street. If you want people to respect your opinion, then respect theirs, even if you don't agree. If you can't respect theirs, don't expect them to respect yours.

Hi Ron!! Welcome!!

Sounds like you have some really nice equipment there. If you really like the sound of your equipment, I'd keep using it and enjoy. I see you have a NAD C-515BEE. I love mine. The sound quality is amazing. I've had mine for 2 years now and it still amazes me every time I turn it on! The NAD is the only piece of 'new' I have.

When to replace old (Classic) equipment?
1. When it malfunctions?
2. When you want something new?
3. If you find a piece of equipment that sounds better for 'you' in your system.

Turntable? There are a bunch of GREAT vintage TTs out there. I don't think I would EVER buy a 'new' TT. Google: Sansui 1980 SR-838, and 1979 SR-929. They are direct drive but are really fine. The 838 could be had for $350 and the 929 about $450+. I prefer the 838.

---

Were not equipment bashing.

Everyone should have the equipment that they like and love the sound of, your absolutely right.

Do I want more equipment, some piece of equipment that I don't have or need? No, not really, not at all actually. My vintage rig is fine just the way it is. Totally satisified.

Maybe...a pair of vintage JBLs would be nice to get someday. But no hurry. If I never get them that's ok too. Certainly not looking for any speakers at the moment. I really like the 4300 series with the blue colored fronts, like the model 4343. Thinking about it. Guess you can pick up a pair in excellent shape for $4000. Been 'researching that', a bit, a year or two ago. Or even a medium sized pair of JBLs, that would be fine too.

There is just something about vintage equipment that makes you all warm and comfortable, even before you turn it on, just looking at it in the vintage rack. It's a 'cool' thing, if you like that kind of thing. It's all personal choice. Great sounding vintage equipment is not easy to find. Took me 5 years and 6 countries (USA, England, Ireland, Sweden, Germany, Argentina) to get my system together. Vintage isn't easy. It's not easy to find this very specific 'vintage stuff'. And it's not like we can't afford anything else. Many of us could, if we wanted to. It's just what we prefer. f

I totally respect anyone who buys new. I know there is great, superior really, sounding quality new gear out there. We all enjoy our stereos here. That's why we are here on AK. Right!

 

[melofelo]

Assuming your system is fully functional...i'd drag your turntable(and nad pp2) along to a good dealers..and ask him to demo something that he thinks will better it in a high resolution system.
If he can't suggest anything new at or below the £400 mark that sounds better to your ears using the same cartridge... tweak what you already have...or consider buying preowned.
...it's a buyers market at the moment :scratch2:

 

[starquest52]

Run with whatever sounds best to your ears

 

[reggaenaut]

OK

:scratch2:

That's exactly what I'm talking about. How do you do that? :>)


Just saw, 5 months ago, a 1987 Sansui AU-X701 "Vintage Series" amp sell for $94 on eBay. Get a cheaper 'good new modern amp' or the AU-X701 for $94. No comparison in quality build and sound quality. I'd personally grab the X701.

Here we go again!! LOL.

I have been reading a lot about those series. Thanks for the endorsement! I will keep my eyes open. Really curious about comparison to older Sansui.

 

[yaya97]

I'm sure if you enter into the arena of $3500 amps, $4000+ speakers, $1000+ racks, $600+ CD players, $2000+ TTs, etc., the gear is and does sounds great, and it should be of a high quality and reliable too. I would certainly hope so.

But if I did buy a new pair of $4500 speakers I definately take the magnets off the mids and woofers and glue my AlNiCo magnets on!
(only joking of course.)
I may need a new pair of speakers someday. I'd have to research that. But it's not a pressing issue. My 1970 speakers sound fine. But they ain't gonna last forever.


Bryston! :thmbsp:

I think today we live in a world where quantity has in general become more important quality. Ex: Now a large majority of people just download compressed music from amazon.Fast and easy but sound wise is just not great IMHO.I have to agree that I bought tools and toys that just worked in the days ...today....one out of three chance that I am back to the store... This is not to say that quality does not exist in modern hiFi but there is less of it and thus price to pay...I personally have a total respect for Bluesky and understand his point of view. Now if I had an unlimited budget....I might listen again to the $5000 Harbeth speakers, maybe look at a SME turntable BUT the Mcintosh stays.....

 

[Bigerik]

I'd take the X701 in a heartbeat!!

For me there's no contest between a X701 and a new modern amp under $600.

And why did the X701 cost new? I wonder how many of those had issues or warranty repairs when new. How many died and were just tossed along the way? You know that the caps are out of spec in that gear, right? That it likely doesn't sound the way it did when new.

 

[Bigerik]

I'd take the X701 in a heartbeat!!

For me there's no contest between a X701 and a new modern amp under $600.

Which ones have you compared it to?

 

[Bigerik]

I think today we live in a world where quantity has in general become more important quality. Ex: Now a large majority of people just download compressed music from amazon.Fast and easy but sound wise is just not great IMHO.I have to agree that I bought tools and toys that just worked in the days ...today....one out of three chance that I am back to the store... This is not to say that quality does not exist in modern hiFi but there is less of it and thus price to pay...I personally have a total respect for Bluesky and understand his point of view. Now if I had an unlimited budget....I might listen again to the $5000 Harbeth speakers, maybe look at a SME turntable BUT the Mcintosh stays.....

Some huge generalizations there. Way back when, in the good old days, the vast majority of people had systems by Craig or Lloyd's. All in ones were ubiquitous. 8 track tapes were very popular. Yes, there were more people back then who spent more money on their audio gear than today, but the entry level today to decent audio is, corrected for inflation, much cheaper than it was then.

Further, you don't have to send anything like the kind of money you are talking about to get great modern gear. I was listening to a Rega Brio r the other day that I could have brought home for $799. In 1977, that would have been $225. That would have bought nothing like it for the money.

 

[Tom Brennan]

The conclusion is: there is no conclusion. I have been tempted by some of the NAD and Cambridge components.

Since you have ML electrostatic speakers I think it could be worth your while to investigate tube gear, something like a nice simple 50 wpc integrated amp by Rouge Audio or Jolida-Maryland. IME&O there's a certain synergy between stats and tubes, one worth looking into. My experience is hardly all encompassing but I found my ML Vistas sounded much better even with a 10 wpc Jolida tube amp (I now use a 50 wpc Jolida) than with a far more powerful Denon SS amp, an amp which had worked superbly with Altec Model 19s yet fell flat on it's face with the MLs. With the tube gear the speakers opened up and the image became much wider and deeper and far more involving.

I'm not saying your specific amp isn't working well, just that tubes warrant looking into.

 

[RonC]

I remember the old Sansui equipment. An audiophile friend had one and raved about it. It was very under-appreciated in its time.

I had a Magnecord reel-to-reel tape recorder at one time. It was ancient by the time I had it. The specs, compared to 1980s "modern" criteria, were not very good, but when re-tubed, it sounded magnificent. I never have heard such "air" and imaging! Alas, it died when a diode went up in smoke - literally. My wife wouldn't let me hold funeral services for it.:tears:

I have thought about tubes, particularly after that mysterious experience with the Magnecord. Tubes are a very tempting thought.

The Martin Logan speakers require some 70-80 hours of break in according to the instructions. My experience bear that out. At first, they were bright. Now, the excess brightness has disappeared. The detail they deliver is excellent.

I still listen to Barclay-Crocker tapes on my reel-to-reel. As old as the tapes are, dating back to the 80s, they don't seem to be shedding oxide in excess and sound remarkably good. I had two different brands of Dolby B processors required to play the tapes back. One was dead when I retrieved it from the basement storage. The other was alive and working. That gives me another source device.

I had to replace my Pioneer RT909 reel-to-reel as it blew fuses after being taken out of storage. I found a restored one for a very reasonable price.

This whole exercise has really been fun. At times exasperating, but mostly fun.

Your comments are greatly appreciated!

Ron

 

[yaya97]

Some huge generalizations there. Way back when, in the good old days, the vast majority of people had systems by Craig or Lloyd's. All in ones were ubiquitous. 8 track tapes were very popular. Yes, there were more people back then who spent more money on their audio gear than today, but the entry level today to decent audio is, corrected for inflation, much cheaper than it was then.

Further, you don't have to send anything like the kind of money you are talking about to get great modern gear. I was listening to a Rega Brio r the other day that I could have brought home for $799. In 1977, that would have been $225. That would have bought nothing like it for the money.

well I agree and yet disagree. Thanks to the falling cost of technology, yes I fully agree that it is possible to get a great bang for the buck today. IMHO, today a rather large majority of audio sold seems to be lo to mid fi. Back in the days I have the impression, again JUST me, that the low , mid and high fi ration was more balanced and that higher end material was much more common. I remember the super hifi sales-blowouts in the 70`s and 80`s where I was able to pick up a cool denon TT on sale for $89 at Pacific Stereo instead of the $399 original price. Same thing for the Sansui au717 ( very awesome BTW).

 

[reggaenaut]

Some huge generalizations there. Way back when, in the good old days, the vast majority of people had systems by Craig or Lloyd's. All in ones were ubiquitous. 8 track tapes were very popular. Yes, there were more people back then who spent more money on their audio gear than today, but the entry level today to decent audio is, corrected for inflation, much cheaper than it was then.

Further, you don't have to send anything like the kind of money you are talking about to get great modern gear. I was listening to a Rega Brio r the other day that I could have brought home for $799. In 1977, that would have been $225. That would have bought nothing like it for the money.

Out of pocket expense now. That is the real deal to a lot of Akers.

 

[JohnVF]

Out of pocket expense now. That is the real deal to a lot of Akers.

When I see stacks and stacks of $100 a pop vintage receivers and walls of turntables, I increasingly look at this idea as being just another excuse to explain away an arbitrary bias. I'm not saying money isn't tight, but the argument holds less water when you look at the hoard that some acquire (myself included before I turned vintage stereo redcoat). There's nothing wrong with that except they will take one unit out of that hoard, and hold it up as "well, what can you buy that's this good for $75?"...when they have $1500 worth of unused gear on a shelf in the basement. Not to mention what that gear cost when new. SOMEBODY had to spend the original money on it, so the hoarder club here should be happy that somebody along the way splurged on their hobby. I actually have more pocket money now that I've switched to more modern gear because I'm not shelling out $200-$300 all the time for something different, because I'm so happy with what I have.

 

[reggaenaut]

Some Akers faced with the choice of spending say $800 in one go on a amp when there is another amp (in their estimation) of comparable sonic value available for say $150, will usually opt for the latter. Especially so if.

1: The aesthetics is to their liking
2: There is sufficient feedback as to its serviceability.

 

[JoeESP9]

well I agree and yet disagree. Thanks to the falling cost of technology, yes I fully agree that it is possible to get a great bang for the buck today. IMHO, today a rather large majority of audio sold seems to be lo to mid fi. Back in the days I have the impression, again JUST me, that the low , mid and high fi ration was more balanced and that higher end material was much more common. I remember the super hifi sales-blowouts in the 70`s and 80`s where I was able to pick up a cool denon TT on sale for $89 at Pacific Stereo instead of the $399 original price. Same thing for the Sansui au717 ( very awesome BTW).

Back then that Sansui and Denon were considered "mid-fi". Virtually all Japanese gear from that era was considered mid-fi. That it's being lusted after by a bunch of "collectors" who mistakenly think it was "high end" doesn't change the fact that for those of us who were buying gear then, it was and still is mid-fi.

 

[charles 1973]

RonC:
You have some pretty good gear there, that makes it tough to replace with something new without spending some serious cash. You new speakers look like fine unit's. I haven't any experiance with ML Speakers, but from reviews I've read they have many of the qualities I was lookin for when I recently purchased my Reference 3A Veena II's.

For me it was easier, I had a midrange NAD 1600 Preamp/Tuner with an Audio Design PA 100 power amp. I kept switching between it and my Onkyo 575x AVR untill it occured to me the difference in Sound Quality was so small why bother.

Then one day I took the Preamp out of the picture and connected my Denon 1500II CDP's variable audio output directly to the Power Amp. I had no idea how defecient that semi-respectable NAD Preamp was untill it wasn't! Sudenly imaging/Soundstage, inner detail improved dramatically. Now for the first time it sounded like those systems I hear in the showrooms.

That Revelation convinced me of the importance of Transparent amplifiers that do nothing to the sound. I don't want that warm Tube sound, I don't want over boosed bass, I want the amp to disapear. After doing much research for an amp that can do that I bought the Bryston B100SST. it's worth every penny with the right gear.

That said, perhap's we can have too much transparency and depending on the source and speakers, a little smoothing out may yield benifit's too. I get that from my sources. My Analog FM Tuner uses 2 Philips 6922 Triode Tubes and does a Fine job, and the DAC module I discribe below upsamples to 24 bit/96 kz for my CD's. My Nagoaka MP11 cartridge on my TT is very musical all by itself with LP's. It's all about Synergy! No amount of money can compesate for poorly matched gear. This works for me.

I also ordered the DAC Module for that amp. It made as much an improvent as the Amp did. On some CD's the Difference was so dramatic with respect to imaging/soundstage I had to double check my connection's. Considering that Denon CDP is no slouch IMO it was worth every penny too. I had a friend of mine's Pioneer Elite D-9 CDP over and would consider it if I didn't this DAC. It sounds every bit as good as the reviews I read on it.