yaya97
Super Member
:tresbon::tresbon::tresbon::tresbon:
When to replace old (Classic) equipment
- Thread starter RonC
- Start date
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yaya97
Super Member
So why does vintage equipment have such a strong interest on ebay?? I always watch the bidding wars on Mac material and even Speakerlabs... I bought mine for $150... saw the same go for 650.... same condition...
Certainly, there is a nostalgic value to a lot of the collectors pieces. They were the ones the kids dreamed about but were unobtainable because of the huge cost. And as with most collectors pieces, they are rare. The vast majority of the audio gear bought in the 70's and early 80's is going for not much of anything.
Certainly there is an interest in it, but the real interest is in the collectible stuff. McIntosh, classic tube gear, certain TOTL receivers, rare speakers, etc. The stuff that gets the biggest prices, or prices concurrent with comparable current gear, is not the stuff that is usually talked about here. A Sansui 661 is not going to bring a whole lot more than what somebody might start a 'scroe' thread over. This isn't something I'm just making up, two of my best friends barely scrape by trying to live off of selling this stuff. The ebay prices are high because you're dealing with the whole world- the only market big enough to sustain high prices for most any of this stuff. Even the classic stuff often goes to Asia because the demand isn't high enough here, and much of the disposable income goes into newer gear because the vintage community here is so focused on the deal instead of the unit itself many times.
This isn't the only audio forum. And many of the people into newer gear, aren't on any forum at all.
And when we're talking about $650 for large vintage speakers, that really isn't "high demand". That's just something selling for the price of what entry level bookshelf speakers sell for, in fairly large numbers, in the new market.
As Erik just stated, a lot of this stuff doesn't bring hardly anything. My friends can hardly give away mid-line receivers from the '70s. I think something like a Sony 6065 sounds really nice, but good luck getting $50-70 for it in local sale in a market smaller than Chicago. So much of this stuff ends up on ebay because that is the only place where the supply/demand curve is at all beneficial to the seller. Not only are the numbers often not there, look around here...so many people who are into it, don't want to pay the ebay market value. They'd rather let fate decide what they run by visiting The Salvation Army every two days...I did that for years.
I remember when I switched to modern gear my local store manager, who sells vintage and new, flat out asked me "So who's going to buy all this old stuff now?". He was only half-joking. I used to pick up a vintage unit from him once a month at least.
A few of the vintage collectibles offer features that are hard to find and expensive in new equipment. Many years ao I bought a Scott 121-B mono tube preamp for $10. It has bass turnover and treble rolloff controls in the phono section, which are necessary for playing 78s, and a noise reduction system (Dynaural) that helps make worn records more pleasant to listen to. A 121-B in somewhat nicer physical condition than mine recently sold for $680 on eBay ... and that's still less money than a 78 collector would have to pay today for a new phono preamp with turnover and rolloff adjustments.
Just from this first post, I can sense that I could depend on folks here if I did need help in repairing my components.
Thanks,
Ron
yaya97
Super Member
for once I am in agreement ...90% of vintage is worth .....pennies.... BTW I would rather have the $650 vintage speakers with a 12 inch woofer than the entry level book shelves... : I have a pair of recent AE bookshelves that i paid $450 for: wonderful highs but but really lack the bass the old stuff has....
Speakerlabs were high quality speakers when they were made. Now some thirty years later they are not easy to find. I would love to get a second pair of my Speakerlab 1s. After more than thirty years they still sound great.
I'm not so sure about the Speakerlab 7s I see on there right now. $560 shipped and one has a possibly bad tweeter.
The opposite of that is the merchandise that can be had for pennies on the dollar of what it originally cost. The trick is of course getting stuff that works properly and isn't modified in a bad way or beat to hell.
Ah, c'mon. You've said this at least two or three times. Maybe we don't differ as much as you think?
I'm seriously not anti-vintage. I have a large collection of vintage gear. I just don't limit my listening to just vintage gear.
But if I was on a budget of $650 or so..I'd look for big speakers from the '90s or tail end of the '80s. The late '80s DQ-30s I had were only $250 and pretty amazing for that price, and much much more.
stereofanboy
Addicted Member
Back in the mid-80's, I considered myself somewhat of an audiophile. I wasn't a golden-ear by any means. I had audiophile friends who heard things I didn't even dream of.
I stopped serious, concentrated listening some 15 years ago when I found that I was listening for sound, not music. Also, I started significant international travel for work that left me little time for listening.
The present: I have begun to give myself permission to take time out to sit back, relax, and listen to my large classical, big band and bluegrass collection. I have a Hafler 945 Tuner-preamp (A Hafler 110 preamp is stored int he basement), NAD PP-2 phono preamp, Adcom GFA 555 amp, and just replaced my Infinity Composition Prelude Speakers with Martin Logan Electromotion ESL speakers and a Martin Logan Dynamo 700 sub-woofer.
The front end is a Denon DP-790 turntable with Grace 707 arm and old Shure V15 Type V phono cartridge; a NAD 515bee CD player; and a restored Pioneer RT909 reel to reel for my Barclay Crocker reel to reel tapes.
The Hafler 945 preamp tuner and Adcom GFA 555 amp date back to the late 80s with the turntable mired in that era as well. The Shure cartridge was great in its day, and the stylus is in good condition. The Denon turntable predates the belt drive fad started by Linn Sondek.
So, do I wait for the old equipment to die of old age or consider replacing them? The power supply capacitors on old amps tend to leak after a while. There is no sign of that now, but I suppose it could happen any time. There are people around who restore Adcom amps. There are some fairly inexpensive, belt-drive turntables out there. Do I stand pat with some of the classic components or start saving for more modern parts?
Thanks,
Ron
Ron, from your post above, you don't appear to be unhappy with your current sound, just apprehensive that it won't last. There are several techs on AK that you could use for a rebuild when necessary.
If you are hankering for something different, that's a different story that might justify most of the comments in this thread.
reggaenaut
Addicted Member
Some great bargains in speakers are Canadian speakers whose manufacturers once benefitted from the Canadian government owned speaker research facilities. e.g Sound Dynamics.
KrisM
Lunatic Member
Don't quote me, but I think some are still taking advantage. I read an online review about PSB's outdoor speakers and it was mentioned that they were tested at those facilities. I don't know if it is true or not.
MWalt
Super Member
It sounds like you have a real nice system, Daniel. A reknown idler TT and arm and that oh-so-sweet Leben amp. I almost fell over the first time I heard one. It was however, coupled to a pair of DeVore Orangutans, a 12k speaker. At some point in time I am going to get a Leben.
For those that think a modern stand mount speaker is designed to provide bass response in the lowest half octave, think again. I haven't heard a good sounding one do so yet. They need to be mated up with a high quality sub. They are purpose driven in design. I am sure there are exceptions, of course.
charles 1973
Super Member
Energy Pro-22 monitor's are another such product from those facilities and to this day have an overal sound quality that is much closer to some rather expensive speakers from the likes of PMC, Spendor and Reference 3A than they ought to be. The problem I find with mine is they are highly room dependant. In the dead rec room of the townhome I moved into last year, The Reference 3A Veena II's I bought a few months ago have a more proper midrange and more enveloping soundstage while maintaining the Pro-22's Imaging, Clean transparent sound and most of the Deep Bass. The bass sounds every bit as deep, but not according to the specs.
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davidro
Lunatic Member
Or they can be allocated a specific mission of reproducing classical chamber music without subs. This is why I added a pair of current mini-monitors to my setup.
yaya97
Super Member
I was wondering about this. I have the impression that modern speakers need a sub 90% of the time to get proper bass...Nothing wrong with that but just required.Kind of a new standard maybe
jimfet
Lunatic Member
Nothing wrong with adding a sub at all. Hell, subs have been around for a very long time. But these small speakers today reproduce over 80% of the sound very accurate. If all you have to do is add a sub to finish the spectrum, then I'm all for it.
The best speakers I ever heard had subs.
The best speakers I ever heard had subs.
I've never felt the need to add a subwoofer to any of my speakers, including stand-mounted monitors. I've had people come to my house and after listening for awhile ask me where I keep my sub, and it takes a few minutes for them to believe me when I say there isn't one.