When to replace old (Classic) equipment

[bluesky]

I have been reading a lot about those series. Thanks for the endorsement! I will keep my eyes open. Really curious about comparison to older Sansui.

I have an AU-X901 (Japanese domestic AU-a707i alpha) and it sounds really nice. 130W RMS. It has 'source direct' (which really is nice!), loudness, MC if desired, and tone circuit which also really does something nice.

I've never heard the AU-X701 (AU-a607i I believe), 100W RMS, but I'm sure it would be a really nice amp.

These were the only two 1987 X models that are rebadged alphas for the international market.

There was also others like the AU-X501 (which people seem to like) and AU-X301, and AU-X201 but I don't believe they are "Vintage Series" 'alpha' amps.

The sound?
Much more refined than the earlier Sansui amps like AU-717, AU-919, etc. The 717/919 are muscle machines, really deep sound, really nice really, just the way an amp should sound. The alphas also sound 'deep', but not as deep deep as the 717/919, but...they sound more 'musical'. Just refined circuitry. The alphas have a slightly a different type sound. They sound really nice.

The X701s (usually sell for $250 or so) come up on the bay like once every 3-4 months or so. The X901...looked for one for 10 months daily before I found mine. They sell for $450 to $800, and in Europe $1250-1500+. My amp search is over. It's a real nice amp! Especially for the price.

Good luck.

And why did the X701 cost new? I wonder how many of those had issues or warranty repairs when new. How many died and were just tossed along the way? You know that the caps are out of spec in that gear, right? That it likely doesn't sound the way it did when new.

The '87 "Vintage Series" X701 and X901 are very quality amps with high quality builds. I've heard of Zero problems for reliablity. These amps were built when Sansui was trying to re-establish their good name after the early to mid 80's poor quality amps they put out trying to make money on volumn. This X-series are very high-quality amps that are way under the radar. My amp runs exactly like 'brand new'. I know other owners too and they have Zero problems.

They are very in demand in Europe, especially Germany, and command high used prices.

I think the X901 cost $1000-$1100 or so in '87. The X701? Just guessing: $775-800?

To compare them in sound quality to new amps? You just have to hear one. It's serious gear. Once you hear one I think you may be very pleasently suprised. Especially if you can find a X901 for $450-500 or a X701 for $250!! But...it's buying used, you know that game. Ask the seller a ton of quesitons prior the end of the auction. If you get a good one, you got it!! Sansui alpha circuitry.

Just sayin that I really 'love my X901'. It sounds really nice. Especially in 'source direct' mode. My amp search is over. The X901 works just fine for me. It's a 'nice' amp.

 

[89grand]

When it comes to amps, weight is to a decent degree, a pretty good indicator of build quality at least. Large transformers and heat sinks are not light. I'd feel more comfortable with a 30 pound amp of equal power over a 13 pound amp.

 

[JohnVF]

I have an AU-X901 (Japanese domestic AU-a707i alpha) and it sounds really nice. 130W RMS. It has 'source direct' (which really is nice!), loudness, MC if desired, and tone circuit which also really does something nice.

I've never heard the AU-X701 (AU-a607i I believe), 100W RMS, but I'm sure it would be a really nice amp.

These were the only two 1987 X models that are rebadged alphas for the international market.

There was also others like the AU-X501 (which people seem to like) and AU-X301, and AU-X201 but I don't believe they are "Vintage Series" 'alpha' amps.

The sound?
Much more refined than the earlier Sansui amps like AU-717, AU-919, etc. The 717/919 are muscle machines, really deep sound, really nice really, just the way an amp should sound. The alphas also sound 'deep', but not as deep deep as the 717/919, but...they sound more 'musical'. Just refined circuitry. The alphas have a slightly a different type sound. They sound really nice.

The X701s (usually sell for $250 or so) come up on the bay like once every 3-4 months or so. The X901...looked for one for 10 months daily before I found mine. They sell for $450 to $800, and in Europe $1250-1500+. My amp search is over. It's a real nice amp! Especially for the price.

Good luck.




The '87 "Vintage Series" X701 and X901 are very quality amps with high quality builds. I've heard of Zero problems for reliablity. These amps were built when Sansui was trying to re-establish their good name after the early to mid 80's poor quality amps they put out trying to make money on volumn. This X-series are very high-quality amps that are way under the radar. My amp runs exactly like 'brand new'. I know other owners too and they have Zero problems.

They are very in demand in Europe, especially Germany, and command high used prices.

I think the X901 cost $1000-$1100 or so in '87. The X701? Just guessing: $775-800?

To compare them in sound quality to new amps? You just have to hear one. It's serious gear. Once you hear one I think you may be very pleasently suprised. Especially if you can find a X901 for $450-500 or a X701 for $250!! But...it's buying used, you know that game. Ask the seller a ton of quesitons prior the end of the auction. If you get a good one, you got it!! Sansui circuitry.

Just sayin that I really 'love my X901'. It sounds really nice. Especially in 'source direct' mode. My amp search is over. The X901 works just fine for me.

The Denon PMA-a100 amp, essentially a slightly tricked out PMA-2000IVR, from last year sounds a bit like the Au-x901, but I prefer the Denon. It has an even more up to date sound than the 901, and you could find them on closeout for about $1200 until recently. As much as I like the 901, then current Denon had an even more refined sound. So yeah, it was more expensive but you got a brand new amp, and depending on what you like in an amp, it was a bit of a giant killer if you ask me. I am kicking myself for not having bought one of the demo units I saw, as I'm going to be getting rid of my Levinson and I could have used it

 

[bluesky]

When it comes to amps, weight is to a decent degree, a pretty good indicator of build quality at least. Large transformers and heat sinks are not light. I'd feel more comfortable with a 30 pound amp of equal power over a 13 pound amp.

I prefer weighty amps myself. Folks say it doesn't matter now. It matters to me.

 

[bluesky]

The Denon PMA-a100 amp, essentially a slightly tricked out PMA-2000IVR, from last year sounds a bit like the Au-x901, but I prefer the Denon. It has an even more up to date sound than the 901, and you could find them on closeout for about $1200 until recently. As much as I like the 901, then current Denon had an even more refined sound. So yeah, it was more expensive but you got a brand new amp, and depending on what you like in an amp, it was a bit of a giant killer if you ask me. I am kicking myself for not having bought one of the demo units I saw, as I'm going to be getting rid of my Levinson and I could have used it

Never heard the Denon PMA-a100 or PMA-20000IVR amps you mentioned. Sounds like it was a really great deal for $1200, a very nice price really. And like you said: Brand New. That's always a plus. Vintage is a gamble: Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. There's no way around it. One seller's perfect is another buyer's junk. It happens, especially with electronics.

It really does all depend on "what you like and the features you want in an amp", like MM/MC, etc. Everyone is different with different needs. One person could really like amp 'Z' and another person maybe wouldn't like it all that much for whatever reasons. And if it is used, how was it used and by whom in what type of envinroment? That and guess it's all down to the 'sound quality' you enjoy and the amps features. Also if the buyer likes 'that' specific model. All amp models do sound different.

Bet the Denon PMA-a100 amp does sound fine!

I'm not sure what an 'up to date' sound would be, or sound like? Maybe purer, or flater, or not flavored at all (cleaner), a sound designed for CD playback primarily? Just guessing really. I find this interesting. What is an 'up to date' sound? Thanks in advance.

 

[frperdurabo]

Definitely agree with that.

I think your best bang for the buck as far as amplifiers and preamps are concerned is to look for lightly used TOTL from mid to late ‘90’s. The electronics and build quality are way more sophisticated than the silver faced 1960’s and ‘70s stuff people seem to be fond of overpaying for. You can buy some great stuff real cheap that is generally being over looked.

+1 :yes:

 

[KentTeffeteller]

That's the problem with that era of gear. Too many extra gadgets, IC chips which tend to get unavailable quickly, and general build quality of most of that declining until you get into the expensive esoteric gear made the old way. I have seen more than one 1990's era TOTL from Sony, Pioneer, HK, Denon, and similar become a doorstop due to an unobtainium IC getting zapped. Simpler gear with discrete transistors tends to be easier to keep alive or tube gear.

 

[kconnor]

Parts obsolescence is a consideration no matter what the era. For instance the Sony TA-4650 is a great amplifier but where are you going to find the V-FETs they used in the output. The Marantz 3600 preamp I once owned was based on an archaic and horrible sounding audio IC. By contrast the power amp I just bought was produced in the late ‘90s. It has fully complementary discrete audio circuitry, 220 wpc, employs a sophisticated protection scheme, weighs 50lbs and is built like a tank. I paid $140 for it.

 

[JohnVF]

1990's gear is in a black hole of audio. Too new for the vintage folks, too old for the new folks. Therefore, I like buying it . Both of my favorite preamps are from that time period (the Klyne and a McCormack TLC-1 deluxe), as well as 2 of the 4 pairs of speakers I tend to run.

 

[RonC]

Parts obsolescence is a consideration no matter what the era. For instance the Sony TA-4650 is a great amplifier but where are you going to find the V-FETs they used in the output. The Marantz 3600 preamp I once owned was based on an archaic and horrible sounding audio IC. By contrast the power amp I just bought was produced in the late ‘90s. It has fully complementary discrete audio circuitry, 220 wpc, employs a sophisticated protection scheme, weighs 50lbs and is built like a tank. I paid $140 for it.

If I can be so bold as to ask, what power amp was it that you purchased?

My Adcom from the late 80s, early 90s was considered an outstanding amp designed by Nelson Pass. My concern is what will happen when it dies. The first component that often fails are the power supply capacitors. They can leak all over the board. If leaking isn't a big problem, I probably could replace them myself. If a transistor goes out, then I am out of luck.

Ron

 

[KrisM]

1990's gear is in a black hole of audio. Too new for the vintage folks, too old for the new folks. Therefore, I like buying it . Both of my favorite preamps are from that time period (the Klyne and a McCormack TLC-1 deluxe), as well as 2 of the 4 pairs of speakers I tend to run.

90s era speakers, especially floor standers, are a big, beautiful black hole. Who the hell dumps a pair of piano black PSB Stratus Silvers(with matching center speaker) at a Goodwill? I don't know, but I'll gladly take advantage of it.:yes: Similar deals can be found on CL or kijiji, if you know what to look for.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

I think better 1990's speakers may be the sleeper buy though of the era and upper end separates from now unsung esoteric makes.

 

[kconnor]

If I can be so bold as to ask, what power amp was it that you purchased?

On a whim I bought a Crest 3301 power amplifier. I am very happy I did. I'll admit that aesthetically its not everyone's cup of tea but the sonics are really beyond reproach (to me at least). I've owned lots of amps over the years some highly respected, vintage super amps like Philips 5781 and GAS Ampzilla to name a few. Some tubed stuff too. The Crest is at least the equal of the best of them and better than most.

 

[AudioSoul]

I have gone in and out of the new and vintage thing several times in the fifty years I have been in this hobby. It all depends what new and what vintage gear you are talking about. There is crap from all era's......

 

[reggaenaut]

Parts obsolescence is a consideration no matter what the era. For instance the Sony TA-4650 is a great amplifier but where are you going to find the V-FETs they used in the output. The Marantz 3600 preamp I once owned was based on an archaic and horrible sounding audio IC. By contrast the power amp I just bought was produced in the late ‘90s. It has fully complementary discrete audio circuitry, 220 wpc, employs a sophisticated protection scheme, weighs 50lbs and is built like a tank. I paid $140 for it.

Of course! But moreso for some eras.

 

[reggaenaut]

Definitely agree with that.

The electronics and build quality are way more sophisticated than the silver faced 1960’s and ‘70s stuff people seem to be fond of overpaying for.

I guess the reason people who fight their way through the usually black plastic stuff to get at the silver face ones and then overpaying for them is probably sex.They probably like to play with and feel the solidity.

Calling in Poppa Freud.

Just witness the reaction of some audio fans when they witness just a glimpse of SILVER among a sea of BLACK PLASTIC.

 

[Livin4]

If I can be so bold as to ask, what power amp was it that you purchased?

My Adcom from the late 80s, early 90s was considered an outstanding amp designed by Nelson Pass. My concern is what will happen when it dies. The first component that often fails are the power supply capacitors. They can leak all over the board. If leaking isn't a big problem, I probably could replace them myself. If a transistor goes out, then I am out of luck.

Ron

Component failure is a concern regardless of the age or brand, I spent almost 10 years in the consumer repair field in the late 80's, early 90's, primarily working on audio. I would guess that at least 30% of my work was warranty.

Unfortunately, components fail, some earlier than others. Currently I am re-caping my Sansui QRX-9001, it was working fine, but it is 34 years old, and there are some unobtainium parts in it. Rather than wait until something failed, and took out something irreplaceable, I am doing preventative maintenance. Fortunately, I can do the work myself.

Replacing caps is not hard, dis-assembly, and re-assembly is the hard part. If you were to choose to try, there are lots of people here that would be more than willing to help you do it.

 

[MWalt]

I guess the reason people who fight their way through the usually black plastic stuff to get at the silver face ones and then overpaying for them is probably sex.They probably like to play with and feel the solidity.

Calling in Poppa Freud.

Just witness the reaction of some audio fans when they witness just a glimpse of SILVER among a sea of BLACK PLASTIC.

The only modern amps that I see that are "black plastic" are usually budget mid-fi offerings or home theatre AV units. My Plinius 9100 looks like it was hewn from a solid piece of SILVER aluminum and sounds far superior to any of the vintage amps I have had in the past (and I have had many). Based on some of your responses, I doubt that you have ever seen or auditioned a quality modern amp. Calling Dr. Jung now.

 

[JohnVF]

The only modern amps that I see that are "black plastic" are usually budget mid-fi offerings or home theatre AV units. My Plinius 9100 looks like it was hewn from a solid piece of SILVER aluminum and sounds far superior to any of the vintage amps I have had in the past (and I have had many). Based on some of your responses, I doubt that you have ever seen or auditioned a quality modern amp. Calling Dr. Jung now.

Not to mention that hanging out here gives a very skewed vision of what people in this hobby are actually doing. Vintage isn't nearly as popular in the hobby as a whole, as it is portrayed in these pages. Just try to get more than the "score" price for much of it and see....

 

[Daniel.]

I fully agree. Even though I have vintage now ( Mac 6100, old Thorens TT and Speakerlabs from the 70`s) I am not locked in any nostalgia craze. This being said I listened to some nice new speakers that I did like a few months back ( I think Harbeth????) but ....wow the huge $$$$( over 3500 I think) made me refall in love with my Speakerlabs that cost me under 300 with their awesome bass... I would guess to get IMHO a better speaker today to replace mine, I might end up paying over 2K...wife says no!:nono:
Now if we talk looks, the new leben amps are IMHO the coolest looking ever but I have yet to hear one!

I mix old and new; got an old (but fully re-built) Garrard 301 with SME arm Nagaoka MP-50 MM cartridge running into a Leben CS-300XS 15 watt valve integrated with Leben RS-30EQ valve phono and I love the sound.

Looks old world with the golden faceplate and big dials, warm orange glow from the valves inside seen through slots in top, sounds lovely with the hollow state amplifying the parts I can discern. The Lebens replaced an Audiable Illussions Mod 3 preamplifier, with Loricraft Missing Link phono stage into a Nelson Pass built "First Watt F3" JFET amplifier.

I am very happy I made the change.