Which new cartridge?

[Adamo0926]

I have an Ortofon Concorde Music Bronze cart (nude fine line stylus with 2.0 gram VTF) that I now use on my old Marantz 6200. It has a lot more power (6mV output) than my AT carts (3mV output) and it picked up more surface noise on my SL-1200GR2, so I had to have the records as spotless as possible before playing. With its long body it fits the short arm on the Marantz 6200 (99mm spindle to pivot distance) better than any other cart I've tried: Sure and AT carts all ending up being overly angled in the headshell so much trying to align them that I had either inner or outer groove distortion. With the Concorde it plays wonderfully.
View attachment 3569949

What do you use for record and stylus cleaning ? Over the course of looking at forums I have read so many different and conflicting opinions.

For instance, for keeping the stylus clean I have read things like:

1) Mr Clean Magic Eraser (which I have used)
2) Just a dry stylus cleaning brush (use this now)
3) When it comes to stylus cleaning fluid some people say it's good just don't use it too often, others say not to use it all. I have used it maybe every 5 albums or so, sometimes
less than that.

What I have heard about record cleaning is way too long to list here....lol

 

[krautmaster]

I have a Pro-Ject VC S2 record vacuum, a dry stylus brush, and occasionally use a Mr Clean Magic Eraser if there is a wad of fuzz on the needle. All records, even brand new ones get washed, vacuumed, then put in sleeves that have double rice paper. Once on the table they get hit with an anti-static brush. You would not believe the gunk on some new pressings: filthy with mold release chemicals and shoved dirty into a paper sleeve YIKES ! It is also amazing how much crud a Micro Line stylus will pull out of the grooves, especially in older records.

 

[Adamo0926]

I have a Pro-Ject VC S2 record vacuum, a dry stylus brush, and occasionally use a Mr Clean Magic Eraser if there is a wad of fuzz on the needle. All records, even brand new ones get washed, vacuumed, then put in sleeves that have double rice paper. Once on the table they get hit with an anti-static brush. You would not believe the gunk on some new pressings: filthy with mold release chemicals and shoved dirty into a paper sleeve YIKES ! It is also amazing how much crud a Micro Line stylus will pull out of the grooves, especially in older records.
View attachment 3570228

Wow....maybe I will send my favorite LPs to you and have you clean them for me, we can work out a price for each LP....lol.

But seriously....you mentioned washing them before the vacuum......how do you do the washing ?
Also could you suggest a good anti-static brush ?

I'm guessing that Pro-Ject record is not exactly a bargain basement price !

 

[krautmaster]

Wow....maybe I will send my favorite LPs to you and have you clean them for me, we can work out a price for each LP....lol.

But seriously....you mentioned washing them before the vacuum......how do you do the washing ?
Also could you suggest a good anti-static brush ?

I'm guessing that Pro-Ject record is not exactly a bargain basement price !

I got the vacuum when it was on sale as they had a new model coming out (it still wasn't cheap, about $425 IIRC and it sounds like a banshee when the vacuum is on). It came with a big bottle of Pro-Jects record cleaner ("Wash It 2") and a horse hair brush... I apply a couple teaspoons of cleaner around the record surface, set the machine to rotate and hold the brush to the record for 15 spins or so, about 30 seconds (I spin it in both directions). I have a spray bottle full of distilled water, so after the cleaner has had time to work, the record gets a good dousing with the distilled water then vacuumed. My Anti Static brush is from Hudson Hi-Fi (good place to get a VTF scale too).

Lots of folks are using ultra sonic cleaners to good effect, but I haven't needed one so far... if the vacuum breaks down I'll likely get an ultra sonic as a replacement.

Pro-Ject Audio Systems – Turntables and hifi stereo components since 1991 | Handmade in Europe

pro-jectusa.com

Pro-Ject Audio Systems – Turntables and hifi stereo components since 1991 | Handmade in Europe

pro-jectusa.com

Hudson Hi-Fi Carbon Fiber Record Cleaner Brush – Anti-Static Deep Groove Cleaning for Optimal Sound Quality & Protection

Keep your vinyl clean and static-free with the Hudson Hi-Fi Anti-Static Carbon Fiber Record Brush.

hudsonhifi.com

The DJ's Secret Weapon: 3-Piece Alignment Kit – VTA Block, Stylus Scale, Tonearm Tool in Premium Case for Perfect Turntable Sound

Achieve perfect setup with the Premium 3-Piece Alignment Kit from Hudson Hi-Fi, includes VTA block, stylus scale, and tonearm tool for precision tuning.

hudsonhifi.com

 

[cafe latte]

You are probably right about the Exact cartridges, but I can't comment on that since I have never heard them. However I did read in one review the the new ND cartridges make the Exact cartridges sound "crude". So that review would support your statement. All I'm saying is the the ND cartridges are a completely different animal from the Exact cartridges and should not be judged by people that have never heard them.

I would never trash any piece of equipment that I have not heard be it speakers, amps, or whatever. But that's just me. And even if I had heard something and didn't like it someone else might love it. That's because any reviews by anyone are purely subjective. Some people love Klipsch speakers, others can't stand them.

The bottom line is that whatever sounds fabulous to your own ears is all that matters. So if I ever say that a piece of equipment is not good, that means it's not good IN MY OPINION. It means it didn't sound good TO ME. Others may love it for their own reasons and if they love it, that's great for them.

But my point is this, that if you ever are going to give an opinion about a piece of equipment at least give it the courtesy of listening to it first.

The Rega ND7 cartridge is the best cartridge I have heard to date and I absolutely love how it sounds and tracks, IN MY OPINION.

My 2c on Rega MMs.
The Exact was not just bad it was utter garbage. Inside consisted of a piece of what looks like bent fencing wire with coils wound on each side really really crudely in a mound criss crossing.
The frequency curve is diabolically bad, it is literally the worst cart available.
The new one I dont doubt is better, it is hard to be worse.
I really hope they are sub contracting to get these new ones made as I have seen inside the Exact and if the same people are making the new Rega MMs as the old then I would have concerns about the quality.
Basically a person can't make a cartridge as bad as the Exact, then suddenly be able to make a work of art.
Chris

 

[Adamo0926]

My 2c on Rega MMs.
The Exact was not just bad it was utter garbage. Inside consisted of a piece of what looks like bent fencing wire with coils wound on each side really really crudely in a mound criss crossing.
The frequency curve is diabolically bad, it is literally the worst cart available.
The new one I dont doubt is better, it is hard to be worse.
I really hope they are sub contracting to get these new ones made as I have seen inside the Exact and if the same people are making the new Rega MMs as the old then I would have concerns about the quality.
Basically a person can't make a cartridge as bad as the Exact, then suddenly be able to make a work of art.
Chris

Of the people assuming that the ND cartridges cannot be exceptional just because previous cartridges from Rega were less than acceptable, I seem to be the only person that has actually heard both the ND5 and now the ND7. Can I tell you what's inside ? Nope. But I did see a video where an audio person did dissect one and he seemed pretty impressed. But can I tell you how they sound ? I sure can. And I always liked Ortofon cartridges but these two are better sounding. Is it a major difference ? No. But it is a very noticeable audible difference. And that included the highly regarded OM40 cartridge which I have also heard extensively. Both the ND5 and ND7 eclipsed that one as well for me. Both in sound and tracking.

I can't tell you about reliability and I don't think anyone can really, since these cartridges were released very recently. If the ND7 fails for some reason after less than a year or so, then I would have to say you were right about that. But I highly doubt that will turn out to be the case.

I will also point out that I have read opinions of the Exact by people that really like them. And these aren't people that are selling them so they don't have any skin in that game.
Now maybe you will accuse them of having a "tin ear" but I won't do that. If they like it and can explain why they like it that's good enough for me to accept their opinion about it.

I've also heard cartridges that I think are awful. One was a Grado which for me was not listenable. But I think most would probably agree with that assessment. And even though I like Ortofon cartridges, I'm not a fan of the 2M Red. But then again it's a 100.00 cartridge, so for it's price it's at least passable.

As I had said in my previous posts, I don't think it's good practice to judge or trash a piece of equipment without listening to it first. And I have never cared about graphs and measurements. I don't listen to graphs, I listen to music. That's my ultimate measuring stick.

And being into music since I was 10 and playing music since I was 12, accordion at first then switching to guitar at 16, I think I have a pretty good ear for music and know what I should listen for even when doing the occasional practice of "critical listening".

But I can still tolerate differing opinions. Maybe one day you will actually hear an ND5 or an ND7 and then make a judgement about them. Of course I hope you could do so without the baggage of having a bias against the manufacturer because sometimes people will also hear what they want to hear.

 

[cafe latte]

Of the people assuming that the ND cartridges cannot be exceptional just because previous cartridges from Rega were less than acceptable, I seem to be the only person that has actually heard both the ND5 and now the ND7. Can I tell you what's inside ? Nope. But I did see a video where an audio person did dissect one and he seemed pretty impressed. But can I tell you how they sound ? I sure can. And I always liked Ortofon cartridges but these two are better sounding. Is it a major difference ? No. But it is a very noticeable audible difference. And that included the highly regarded OM40 cartridge which I have also heard extensively. Both the ND5 and ND7 eclipsed that one as well for me. Both in sound and tracking.

I can't tell you about reliability and I don't think anyone can really, since these cartridges were released very recently. If the ND7 fails for some reason after less than a year or so, then I would have to say you were right about that. But I highly doubt that will turn out to be the case.

I will also point out that I have read opinions of the Exact by people that really like them. And these aren't people that are selling them so they don't have any skin in that game.
Now maybe you will accuse them of having a "tin ear" but I won't do that. If they like it and can explain why they like it that's good enough for me to accept their opinion about it.

I've also heard cartridges that I think are awful. One was a Grado which for me was not listenable. But I think most would probably agree with that assessment. And even though I like Ortofon cartridges, I'm not a fan of the 2M Red. But then again it's a 100.00 cartridge, so for it's price it's at least passable.

As I had said in my previous posts, I don't think it's good practice to judge or trash a piece of equipment without listening to it first. And I have never cared about graphs and measurements. I don't listen to graphs, I listen to music. That's my ultimate measuring stick.

And being into music since I was 10 and playing music since I was 12, accordion at first then switching to guitar at 16, I think I have a pretty good ear for music and know what I should listen for even when doing the occasional practice of "critical listening".

But I can still tolerate differing opinions. Maybe one day you will actually hear an ND5 or an ND7 and then make a judgement about them. Of course I hope you could do so without the baggage of having a bias against the manufacturer because sometimes people will also hear what they want to hear.

No we dont listen to graphs, this is true, but when the graph shows how diabolical the frequency curve is, it tells us a great deal how the cartridge will sound and nothing with such a terrible dip will sound good.
Re Grado, the early ones were rolled off in the highs, the 2s were much better, but a bit fragile. The 3s have amazing highs, actually there is a treble rise if they are not loaded correctly.
also Grado are a high compliance cartridge so they need a light arm to work properly and they are unshielded too so thry dont work well on unshielded turntables like Rega as they will hum, but on a decent table with an arm of the correct effective mass they are amazing. Few cartridges at any price can boast even close to the separation on Grado. I have measured greater than 38dB separation when most cartridges struggle to get 25dB.
The Opus 3 low output is one of the best cartridge bargains out there, even stock standard, retipped with boron and micro ridge it is a giant killer.
Re the new Rega MM, I never said they can't be well made, what I said was if they are then it is likely they are made for Rega not by Rega like the Rega carbon which is made by Audio Technica.
What I said was knowing how badly made the old Rega MMs were, one would hope the same people were not winding the coils ect on the new ones.
Chris

 

[Adamo0926]

No we dont listen to graphs, this is true, but when the graph shows how diabolical the frequency curve is, it tells us a great deal how the cartridge will sound and nothing with such a terrible dip will sound good.
Re Grado, the early ones were rolled off in the highs, the 2s were much better, but a bit fragile. The 3s have amazing highs, actually there is a treble rise if they are not loaded correctly.
also Grado are a high compliance cartridge so they need a light arm to work properly and they are unshielded too so thry dont work well on unshielded turntables like Rega as they will hum, but on a decent table with an arm of the correct effective mass they are amazing. Few cartridges at any price can boast even close to the separation on Grado. I have measured greater than 38dB separation when most cartridges struggle to get 25dB.
The Opus 3 low output is one of the best cartridge bargains out there, even stock standard, retipped with boron and micro ridge it is a giant killer.
Re the new Rega MM, I never said they can't be well made, what I said was if they are then it is likely they are made for Rega not by Rega like the Rega carbon which is made by Audio Technica.
What I said was knowing how badly made the old Rega MMs were, one would hope the same people were not winding the coils ect on the new ones.
Chris
View attachment 3570352

I don't remember which Grado cartridge I had listened to. But the problem for me was not that it was rolled off at the high frequencies, it was that it was so thin sounding and bright that it reached ear bleed levels of harshness. But I did look up the cost of it and I think it was one of their REAL budget level cartridges so that would probably explain it.

I'd love to hear an Ortofon 2M Black, that is supposed to be even better than the very nice OM40. I really liked the OM40 a lot, but my current ND7 has more detail and clarity in the mids and highs than I remember the OM40 having. Now the one thing I don't know is how much wear was on that OM40 stylus. The OM40 is still on my friend's 2nd Thorens TD-147 which is his main table. I told him he should get a new OM40 stylus while some New Old Stock is still available on it.

One thing I will say about the ND7, at least the stylus, is that even with the fabulous sound I was totally impressed with it's tracking. I have older albums that I know have some surface noise that is fairly noticeable with the other cartridges I have had, and the same album with the ND7 has barely noticeable surface noise if any. Plus I have a few albums that have some passages that have issues with sibilance. With the 2M Blue it was still there, with the ND5 it was still there but to a lesser degree, with the ND7 it's completely gone.

The other thing I like about the design of the ND cartridges is that the stylus is integrated into the cartridge body, it's not a separate removable stylus. I always thought that having an integrated stylus like all the MC cartridges have is a significant advantage over having a removable one. Just one less connection interface to degrade the signal, plus it has to be more stable being integrated I would think.

 

[cafe latte]

I don't remember which Grado cartridge I had listened to. But the problem for me was not that it was rolled off at the high frequencies, it was that it was so thin sounding and bright that it reached ear bleed levels of harshness. But I did look up the cost of it and I think it was one of their REAL budget level cartridges so that would probably explain it.

I'd love to hear an Ortofon 2M Black, that is supposed to be even better than the very nice OM40. I really liked the OM40 a lot, but my current ND7 has more detail and clarity in the mids and highs than I remember the OM40 having. Now the one thing I don't know is how much wear was on that OM40 stylus. The OM40 is still on my friend's 2nd Thorens TD-147 which is his main table. I told him he should get a new OM40 stylus while some New Old Stock is still available on it.

One thing I will say about the ND7, at least the stylus, is that even with the fabulous sound I was totally impressed with it's tracking. I have older albums that I know have some surface noise that is fairly noticeable with the other cartridges I have had, and the same album with the ND7 has barely noticeable surface noise if any. Plus I have a few albums that have some passages that have issues with sibilance. With the 2M Blue it was still there, with the ND5 it was still there but to a lesser degree, with the ND7 it's completely gone.

The other thing I like about the design of the ND cartridges is that the stylus is integrated into the cartridge body, it's not a separate removable stylus. I always thought that having an integrated stylus like all the MC cartridges have is a significant advantage over having a removable one. Just one less connection interface to degrade the signal, plus it has to be more stable being integrated I would think.

Ear bleeding bright and thin is totally the opposite of any Grado ever made, either you have not heard a grado or there was something very wrong with your preamp.
Grado are known for lush sweet mids and great bass even on the entry level black.
Chris

 

[Adamo0926]

Ear bleeding bright and thin is totally the opposite of any Grado ever made, either you have not heard a grado or there was something very wrong with your preamp.
Grado are known for lush sweet mids and great bass even on the entry level black.
Chris

Nothing wrong with the preamp. Was using the same electronics for the other cartridges. All I can tell you is that it wasn't even in the same league as ANY of the other cartridges. It was totally unlistenable. Now....perhaps the stylus was way past it's useful life, that I don't know. Maybe it was a bad match for the TT or maybe it was not set up correctly. Any of that is possible I suppose. All I know is that it sounded hideous.....even the 2M Red blew it away.

 

[cafe latte]

Nothing wrong with the preamp. Was using the same electronics for the other cartridges. All I can tell you is that it wasn't even in the same league as ANY of the other cartridges. It was totally unlistenable. Now....perhaps the stylus was way past it's useful life, that I don't know. Maybe it was a bad match for the TT or maybe it was not set up correctly. Any of that is possible I suppose. All I know is that it sounded hideous.....even the 2M Red blew it away.

Grado sound nothing like you described actually totally opposite.
No way a Grado sounded as you said.
Chris

 

[Adamo0926]

Grado sound nothing like you described actually totally opposite.
No way a Grado sounded as you said.
Chris

LOL.....you think I'm lying ? Why ? Do you think I'm making that up just so that I can try to prove some kind of demented point ?
I know what I heard. It sounded extremely harsh.

It sounded terrible....you can believe what you want.

 

[Govany]

Sorry I ever posted on this thread!!

 

[Adamo0926]

I agree with Cafe latte.."harsh" is a word not often used to describe Grado..not their fault you were using a trashed stylus

I had mentioned that as a possible cause. It was not my cartridge. It was on a Thorens TD-147 when my friend purchased the TT from a private
party. So neither of us have any idea how much wear it had. All I did was describe how the thing sounded when I listened to it and compared
it with the other cartridges that I had here.

It was not something I could listen to, for whatever reason.

Are you guys stockholders in Grado or something ?

 

[Govany]

.

 

[Adamo0926]

No. just don't like seeing a current product get bashed for no good reason

I could not agree with you more. But some people on here have been bashing stuff they never even bothered to listen to. And I only bashed
the cartridge that I heard here......I did not say that was indicative of any other Grado product.

And at the very least....I listened to it before making any comments about it.

Now why the Grado I had here sounded that bad is up for discussion. It could have been that the stylus was completely shot as you indicated. And since that
cartridge was already on the TT that was purchased from a private owner, I really have no idea if the stylus had reached the end of it's
usability.

 

[Govany]

.

 

[DavidTT]

No. just don't like seeing a current product get bashed for no good reason

Sure, sorta like bashing most any and every product from a certain British manufacturer that has been making wildly popular phono products since 1973? Does the same prohibition on bashing Rega apply?

Not saying you personally bashed Rega but you rushed in to aid a poster who summarily trashes Rega with almost every post he seems to make on these forums, to the point of absurdity.

 

[justjed2]

It's probably worth mentioning, EVERYTHING is SOMEBODY'S favorite! Yeah, even the 2M Red, go figure! While my opinion might differ, it's no more, or less, valid. It's just mine.

 

[cafe latte]

LOL.....you think I'm lying ? Why ? Do you think I'm making that up just so that I can try to prove some kind of demented point ?
I know what I heard. It sounded extremely harsh.

It sounded terrible....you can believe what you want.

If you say a Grado is harsh and ear bleeding highs, then no I dont believe you have heard one as this is totally the opposite of how a Grado sounds.
Even worn out bottom of the range black is not thin and harsh.
I can believe someone especially the older ones finds Grado too rolled off or too lush and sweet ( some like this some dont) but no Grado has every been described as thin harsh or ear bleeding so no I dont think you have heard one.
A 2m red is harsh, a Grado is not, thry are anything but.
Chris