Who says jazz is always better on lp?

[mrt2]

For some titles that may be true, but not, IMO for all or even most titles currently available.

While there are clearly some superb lp reissues on 45 rpm these days, the fact is that a lot of great jazz from the lp era was OOP until the labels reissued a huge chunk of their back catalogs from the mid 80s to the late 90s on cd. Add to that the fact that almost everything released from the late 80s to present are digital recordings, and most of these were never re issued on lp.

So to recap, I am not disputing that at its very best, jazz on lp can be superb, even definitive if played back throught the right hardware. However, original pressing lps are rare and expensive and premium reissues, great though they may be, are an important but miniscule part of our jazz heritage. (and are widely available in many formats from lp to cd to SACD)

 

[qdrone]

I agree with you

both my analog front end and my CD player are top notch imo,and I have recordings on Cd and Vinyl where one is vastly superiour to the other. Pangea by Miles on DDD cd wipes the floor with my vinyl copy where as my Yaseff Latef Lost In Sound clearly sounds better than my re mastered cd version. :thmbsp:

 

[mrt2]

Also, sometimes you don't appreciate what you have until it is gone. Jazz on cd, both reissues from 50 years ago and product that was originally released on cd, is cheap and abundant, but for how long? Anybody old enough to remember the sorry shape back catalogs of even major artists was like back in the late 70s or early 80s? Even major artists had their work going OOP. If you taste ran to something a bit more obscure, you were often SOL. All that changed in the mid 80s to mid 90s as Sony/Columbia, Verve, Blue Note, and Fantasy reissued big chunks of their back catalogs. A lot of it is now on the verge of going OOP again, so enjoy the abundance while it lasts.

Or, you can spent all your money on another lp version of Kind of Blue.

 

[DC]

Personally, I am rather fond of Jazz that is live.

 

[dmax99]

Personally, I am rather fond of Jazz that is live.

I'm with you on that....

 

[olson_jr]

So to recap, I am not disputing that at its very best, jazz on lp can be superb, even definitive if played back through the right hardware. However, original pressing lps are rare and expensive and premium reissues, great though they may be, are an important but minuscule part of our jazz heritage. (and are widely available in many formats from lp to cd to SACD)

OK, Tongue in Cheek here, but will you please just tell me if I need the 93 or 97 pressing of Blue Train....and hurry mate the auction is ending soon!

Sorry could not resist.

 

[Drybasement]

There are some very good sounding Jazz cds out there Mrt2. Some of those SACDs will rival any original vinyl pressing. The problem with Jazz on compact disc is that there's a whole bunch that was never released on that medium. The only way you're going to find them is on vinyl. And you have to search in the used the shops to get them. Ask many here who are searching, including myself.

Btw, I have been buying up all the OJC cds I can get. Those were well recorded and will disappear quicker than a cat coverin'.

Cheers

 

[Drybasement]

OK, Tongue in Cheek here, but will you please just tell me if I need the 93 or 97 pressing of Blue Train....and hurry mate the auction is ending soon!

Sorry could not resist.

And it's DAZA, mate.

 

[olson_jr]

And it's DAZA, mate.

That obvious eh? I thought one of his posts was an April Fools joke the other day and I think I accidentally got MRT2 wound up with my BS about one sided 45 RPM Pressings.

Un~obvious to me is OJC. WTH?

But then I am bad the acronyms these days, IE BYOM??

 

[Drybasement]

That obvious eh? I thought one of his posts was an April Fools joke the other day and I think I accidentally got MRT2 wound up with my BS about one sided 45 RPM Pressings.

Un~obvious to me is OJC. WTH?

But then I am bad the acronyms these days, IE BYOM??

OJC = Original Jazz Classics

Released under the Fantasy label who, at the time, owned Prestige, Riverside, Contemporary, Jazzland, ect.. These were limited release pressings. Fantasy was bought by Concord Music Group who has not expressed any desire to reissue these old, and sometimes very hard to find, albums. So, I buy them when I can.

Cheerio

 

[mrt2]

There are some very good sounding Jazz cds out there Mrt2. Some of those SACDs will rival any original vinyl pressing. The problem with Jazz on compact disc is that there's a whole bunch that was never released on that medium. The only way you're going to find them is on vinyl. And you have to search in the used the shops to get them. Ask many here who are searching, including myself.

Btw, I have been buying up all the OJC cds I can get. Those were well recorded and will disappear quicker than a cat coverin'.

Cheers

I never said to ditch the TT, either. Only that there is a fair amount of jazz never released on lp, and others that were never pressed in large numbers on lp, such as many of those OJCs on cd. I have been snapping those up wherever I seem them too.

The other thing is, as I said in the Daza thread, sometimes the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. If you like great music, you will buy it in whatever format sounds good at a reasonable price. Sometimes that is the lp, other times, more typically, the cd or the SACD. Daza wants to know, which lp reissue of Blue Train is better, as if everybody on this board has heard all the different version and made the comparison. There is a good sounding, cheap cd widely available. Unless you hate the sound of the cd, why bother with this lp pressing or that. What do you do if your new lp sounds like crap? Maybe your TT sucks, or the cart is worn, or your preamp is too harsh sounding. Or, you just got a worn or bad lp, so you need to go buy another one or exchange it.

 

[daza152]

OK, Tongue in Cheek here, but will you please just tell me if I need the 93 or 97 pressing of Blue Train....and hurry mate the auction is ending soon!

Sorry could not resist.

And it's DAZA, mate.

That obvious eh? I thought one of his posts was an April Fools joke the other day

Gee thanks guys taking the piss a bit there eh Olsen? Now to answer the OP, Yes that would be me, and I'll explain why....I may not be as educated on jazz as the likes of mrt2 and probably never will be. I do however prefer to listen to an album on which was the only available format at the time..i.e Blue Train only was produced in 1957 on vinyl so therefore listening to it on CD would seem to be wrong almost. The music came from an analogue era and should be listened to in that way...I'm sure John would prefer that we hear it the way he wanted it to be heard, not 'digitally' re-mastered just Analogue 'Mastered' :yes:

Daza(vinyl-mad)

 

[mrt2]

Gee thanks guys taking the piss a bit there eh Olsen? Now to answer the OP, Yes that would be me, and I'll explain why....I may not be as educated on jazz as the likes of mrt2 and probably never will be. I do however prefer to listen to an album on which was the only available format at the time..i.e Blue Train only was produced in 1957 on vinyl so therefore listening to it on CD would seem to be wrong almost. The music came from an analogue era and should be listened to in that way...I'm sure John would prefer that we hear it the way he wanted it to be heard, not 'digitally' re-mastered just Analogue 'Mastered' :yes:

Daza(vinyl-mad)

Actually, you probably have it in you to be as "educated" in jazz as me. I am not a musician or even a professional critic, just a music lover.

Actually I don't think Trane would care. As for buying lp reissues, as opposed to originals, no guarantee they aren't mastered from the same digital master they used to make the cd.

 

[Drybasement]

Gee thanks guys taking the piss a bit there eh Olsen? Now to answer the OP, Yes that would be me, and I'll explain why....I may not be as educated on jazz as the likes of mrt2 and probably never will be.

Daza(vinyl-mad)

There are a few others also...

Just poking fun at ya Daza. Don't take it personally.

 

[mrt2]

e Blue Train only was produced in 1957 on vinyl so therefore listening to it on CD would seem to be wrong almost. The music came from an analogue era and should be listened to in that way...Daza(vinyl-mad)

By this logic, shouldn't you be getting Blue Train on R t R tape, since that is closest to the original without going through multiple generations of tape, the de emphasis of the RIAA curve, dragging a rock through plastic, distorting the signal through a phono stage?

The other thing is, some of the best jazz I have ever heard is on digital, either SACD or plain old cd. The best version of Kind of Blue I ever heard was on SACD played through one of the original Sony SACD players, some tube gear, and some large PSB speakers. The best sounding jazz I have in my collection is Clifford Jordan's Live at Ethells (Mapleshade), recorded to analog tape, then mastered to cd by Pierre Sprey. If a small label can make a cd sound that good, there is no reason the cd version of Blue train or any other recording made in 1957 can't sound as good as an lp. And most (though sadly not all) do.

 

[dmax99]

One thing's for certain tho,If I have a CD at home and I find that recording on vinyl somewhere at a used shop,that cd will prolly never see the light of day again.

 

[daza152]

Actually, you probably have it in you to be as "educated" in jazz as me. I am not a musician or even a professional critic, just a music lover.

Actually I don't think Trane would care. As for buying lp reissues, as opposed to originals, no guarantee they aren't mastered from the same digital master they used to make the cd.

True good point

There are a few others also...

Just poking fun at ya Daza. Don't take it personally.

Sweet as, no worries mate

By this logic, shouldn't you be getting Blue Train on R t R tape, since that is closest to the original without going through multiple generations of tape, the de emphasis of the RIAA curve, dragging a rock through plastic, distorting the signal through a phono stage?

The other thing is, some of the best jazz I have ever heard is on digital, either SACD or plain old cd. The best version of Kind of Blue I ever heard was on SACD played through one of the original Sony SACD players, some tube gear, and some large PSB speakers. The best sounding jazz I have in my collection is Clifford Jordan's Live at Ethells (Mapleshade), recorded to analog tape, then mastered to cd by Pierre Sprey. If a small label can make a cd sound that good, there is no reason the cd version of Blue train or any other recording made in 1957 can't sound as good as an lp. And most (though sadly not all) do.

Only winding you up mrt2, I do prefer vinyl but will admit there sounds like you can find qood quality CD's too! But how would you compare a new straight off the press original 'Blue-note' to a CD from what I've heard the blue-note was outstanding quality recordings?? Thanks for the lesson BTW.

Daza.

 

[mrt2]

Only winding you up mrt2, I do prefer vinyl but will admit there sounds like you can find qood quality CD's too! But how would you compare a new straight off the press original 'Blue-note' to a CD from what I've heard the blue-note was outstanding quality recordings?? Thanks for the lesson BTW.

Daza.

Original is original. So if you could build a time machine, transport yourself back to 1957 and buy a hot off the presses Blue Notes, or Prestige, contemporary, Verve, or Columbia, that is the way to go. After that initial run, lps get sourced from second or third generation tapes, are subject to wear and abuse...

So basically, if I had a choice between a clean original pressing, acquired with a time machine played back on a reference quality rig (something retailing for $2,500 or more these days, plus equivalent quality cart, and phono stage so another $2,500, or about $5,000 total invested in analog front end) as opposed to equivalent quality digital rig, than I would take the lp.

But I don't have the money for pristine Blue Note, or even Prestige or Riverside originals, and I don't have $5,000 or more to invest in a vinyl rig, so it is either an lp reissue or the cd. In the real world at real world prices, played back on my real world system (ProJect TT/Grado cart/phono stage on my Arcam amp vs. Arcam cd 192 cd player, or even my old Arcam Alpha 7 cd player), I take the cd, 80% to 90% of the time. Except the very worst examples on cd, like some of the Blue Note RVG reissues (ironically) and some of the Verve Master Editions, and my preference for digital jumps up above 90%.

Add to this the astounding number of jazz recordings out there and the low prices of used cds these days and the choice is clear. Even if I believed these fancy lp reissues were much better than the cd, I wouldn't buy more than a handful, as there is too much great music on cd going for $1 to $8 a disc on cd.

 

[marqueemoon]

There's something about jazz on LP, but CDs are fine too and certainly cheaper and more readily available.

I've said it in other threads but I just don't see a need to "commit" to a format.

 

[mrt2]

There's something about jazz on LP, but CDs are fine too and certainly cheaper and more readily available.

I've said it in other threads but I just don't see a need to "commit" to a format.

I pretty much agree, though the real finds in lps these days are more likely than not to be small label releases from the 70s or early 80s; ECM, Pablo, Solid State, Soul Note, Black Lion, that have little or no value on the collector market.