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Why do Speakers Sound Brighter As Volume Gets Louder?

Mart Mccall said:
The harshness will be due to clipping.
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Question on this- If I understand correctly (from playing bass and guitar- not necessarily from my limited HiFi experience) clipping/distortion introduces compression as well. Wouldn't that have the opposite effect of brightness coming through in a bigger way? I.e. the louder things get the more 'squashed' together the frequencies will be? Or do different frequencies compress in different amounts? (I.e. maybe if the bass and mids are being compressed at louder volumes and the treble isn't then I guess it would sound quite bright). Does that make any sense?
 
Well, bass and especially guitar amplifiers are often tube amplifiers with output transformers. When they go into saturation it causes a completely different sort of distorsion than a clipping solid state hifi amplifier. As a side note: the same applies to an overdriven analog tape recording.
 
Thorsten R. said:
Well, bass and especially guitar amplifiers are often tube amplifiers with output transformers. When they go into saturation it causes a completely different sort of distorsion than a clipping solid state hifi amplifier. As a side note: the same applies to an overdriven analog tape recording.
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THAT explains the difference, and that was the sound I was referencing when thinking of distortion- like an overdriven analog tape recording.
 
Also several have suggested room treatments. It sounds like that would help with overall sound as it’s not a good room. Lots of windows. I didn’t necessarily associate this with the treble blast until you pointed it out.

Unfortunately… WAF. I’m not even allowed to put up curtains.
 
tlite said:
Also several have suggested room treatments. It sounds like that would help with overall sound as it’s not a good room. Lots of windows. I didn’t necessarily associate this with the treble blast until you pointed it out.

Unfortunately… WAF. I’m not even allowed to put up curtains.
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Well there is very waf friendly room treatments, DIY etc so these days there really is no excuse to not have acoustic treatments. You can even even use the furniture you have around the house to tame unwanted resonances.


Audiofreak71
 
Audiofreak71 said:
Well there is very waf friendly room treatments, DIY etc so these days there really is no excuse to not have acoustic treatments. You can even even use the furniture you have around the house to tame unwanted resonances.


Audiofreak71
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Yeah- I feel like it's more or less about as optimized as it can be within the realm of acceptability- area rug, bookcases, etc. A big problem is I've got windows EVERYWHERE. But we do have blinds on them and I try to put the blinds at wonky angles to diffuse sound when I'm listening to music or watching TV. Anyhow- the actual optimization of my room is one thing- and certainly a factor, I don't disagree. Awhile ago I posted a thread on the room to get some ideas. I called GIK and they wanted to put stuff on the ceiling which was met with a big Frowny McFrownface from the wife. Was more wondering whether this Volume --> Treble was a common effect, and why it happens if I'm correct about this effect (which maybe I am and maybe I'm not!). Lots of great info already on this thread to dive into and many thanks.
 
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Actually, was just thinking about another guitar-oriented thing. In analogue guitar tone circuits, people sometimes implement a 'treble bleed' circuit, to counteract lower volumes resulting in reduced/muffled brightness. I've wired up a few of these in my guitars and I like the way it sounds- kind of a nod to the reverse of what I'm experiencing- i.e. not enough treble at lower volumes.

Not sure if this applies in the HiFi world, though...?
 
tlite said:
Interesting- I specifically asked Triangle about the 2235 awhile back:

QUESTION:
"Hello, I have a pair of BR08’s. I’d like to use them with a vintage Marantz 2235 receiver. This receiver (from the 1970’s) was rated at 35 watts per channel continuous. It also states 8 ohm impedance. Will this be enough for the BR08’s? Since they dip down to 3 ohms I wasn’t sure if this receiver would have enough power to adequately drive the speakers. I know they should work, but wasn’t sure if they will be better paired with more power? Thanks! -Ted"

REPLY:
"The BR08 is a 150W continuous.

With your Marantz receiver, the only problem you will occur is that you will have to "push it" to have a correct level sound and that might be a problem for your receiver at last.


Best regards"

I have experienced plenty of clipping (usually when recording music and the input distorts the signal). This may be happening but to me it sounds like something else is going on, but I don't really know enough to tell 100%.
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If the impedance and phase angle are awkward enough the amplifier can clip way short of its usual output limit.

There doesn't appear to be any impedance/phase measurements available on line for the BR08 but many multi-way tower speakers like them are 'difficult' loads so it's a reasonable assumption that the BR08 is too. Your vintage Marantz, lovely though it is, is possibly the worst choice of amp for that speaker. It's designed for the speakers of its time which were almost always high impedance.

Can you borrow an amp from someone just to check? Any modern (last 40 years) solid state amp that is not bargain basement should do, it may still be sub-optimal but should show a significant difference in sound quality if the speaker load is indeed the problem.
 
Easier to drive high frequency drivers, where the bass drivers need much more power to keep a flat frequency.

If you ever notice speaker specs efficiency and flat spec at 1 watt power levels. Those do not stay linear at higher power levels, as the amount of power to keep the bass frequency flat regarding SPL levels with the high frequency are not going to be equal. Using an electronic cross over and multiple amps you could them flat by using a spectrum analyzer and boast the power levels independently.
 
KentTeffeteller said:
...That Marantz is not rated for or wise to run any reactive load which dips to 2 ohms.
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So I finally hooked up the Triangle BR08's to the QSC, and @KentTeffeteller nailed it. I'm not sure if amp wattage was the only reason, but going Marantz preouts through the QSC really made a huge difference- much more bass presence, clarity, and evenness. Much more consistency to the perceived tonal balance as volume increases or decreases now.

I'm sure other factors play a role, but the extra power made a big difference and has the setup sounding great.
 
sKiZo said:
Fletcher Munson is so, like, yesterday... ;-}

ISO 226:2003

PS ... one big advantage to digital storage and playback is that you have a much more adaptable loudness control that can be tailored to your exact needs. I use jRiver here. It's built in variable loudness adjusts the curve on the fly based on demand. I also apply a "house curve" in the software's EQ section to match the output to the room.
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Sounds a bit like my patent: https://patents.google.com/patent/US6341166B1/en
 
tlite said:
Beyond a 'normal' listening level (maybe 75dB?) music start sto sound brighter and harsher with more volume.

Theories so far include:
  1. - The speakers need more power to balance frequency range at higher volumes
  2. - The human ear (or at least my ear) is more sensitive to high frequencies and perceives a lopsided high to low frequency balance even if it's technically still where it was at lower volumes
Any thoughts or ideas as to this?

For reference, I am listening to Triangle BR08's (8 ohms rated, but which can briefly dip to 3 Ohms with lower frequency sounds) powered by a Marantz 2235 receiver.

Thanks!

EDIT 11-15-2021: Corrected Ohm dip to 3 Ohms instead of 2 which I had mistakenly written in the original post.
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I think that would really just depend on your speakers and amplification; if things sound harsh at volume perhaps try other pieces in your system or use room treatments.
 
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