• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Why does my Thorens TD160 turntable sound worse than Spotify?

TellMeWhy

TellMeWhy

Active Member
Hi folks, after a bit of general advice here. I have in recent years brought back into service a THORENS TD160 MK1 turntable that I've had for ages but stopped bothering with vinyl some years ago. Like so many others, and with a decent library of records, I started to get back into it, but so far with totally underwhelming results.

I still find that my turntable set-up (see below) sounds less dynamic, with less clarity, and worse sense of space and openness than a simple digital system of Spotify into an Apple Airport Express. Doing an A-B between digital streamed or CD rip and brand new vinlyl of the same albums, always vinyl (to my ears at least) is inferior. Certainly there is no difference to justify the cost, and I am currently not really an exponent of the popular "vinyl revival". Listening on Sennheiser DH220 headphones on an A-B I can notice some slight distortion on the vinyl, but this might be what other people enjoy as "warmth". Maybe the 2270 has enough warmth already! Maybe the Airport Express is doing some artificial processing to make the "fake" sound "better"?

My Thorens TD160MK1 has been set up and balanced properly. I added a heavy hardwood basebord and some extra dampling to the sub platter and chassis. The TP16 arm is well adjusted, and set up correctly (I have spent HOURS on this!). Cartridge is a Nagaoaka MP110 in good condition with clean stylus. I re-soldered new RCA connectors but use the original wiring. I have tried both the build in phono of my recapped and serviced MARANTZ 2270 add also a CAMBRIDGE DP1 external phono pre (slight improvement). Dynaco M25X and Kef 103.2 speakers...

Anyone - AM I DOIND SOMETHING STUPID WRONG? Or is it simply that a good, well set up mid price turntable system does not sound as good as a cheap digital?

Really am at the point of giving it up and selling the vinyl collection, turntable etc... just doesn't seem worth the trouble!

Any suggestions gratefully appreciated!

Cheers,
Jon
 
Register to hide this ad
If your table is set up properly as you say it is, and your stylus is not worn, then you simply just may not like vinyl, at least not at this level of playback.

I use a 2270 in my office. It’s phono stage is very good so as long as the servicing did not adversely impact it you should be hearing very good sound.

I don’t use headphones maybe that is part of it. What I like and prefer about vinyl is the depth of soundstage and lack of listening fatigue, two things that headphones may make less of a factor.
 
Hi Jon,

The sound your system puts out shouldn't be such that you call it inferior. Your set up is much like mine (Yamaha CR-1020, Technics SL-1210 Mk2 w/ Ortofon Red, Dynaco A-25). So, I'm wondering about your tone arm set up and the cartridge/stylus. (Forgive me if you've already done this) I would recommend going back to basics; balance the tone arm, vertical alignment, proper tracking force and anti-skate, cartridge alignment and a fresh and spotlessly clean stylus.

Don't get me wrong - I stream Spotify daily and admire the quality of the music. But I'm equally pleased with the quality of vinyl being played on the the same system. Your's shouldn't sound inferior.
 
TomInTacoma said:
Hi Jon,

The sound your system puts out shouldn't be such that you call it inferior. Your set up is much like mine (Yamaha CR-1020, Technics SL-1210 Mk2 w/ Ortofon Red, Dynaco A-25). So, I'm wondering about your tone arm set up and the cartridge/stylus. (Forgive me if you've already done this) I would recommend going back to basics; balance the tone arm, vertical alignment, proper tracking force and anti-skate, cartridge alignment and a fresh and spotlessly clean stylus.

Don't get me wrong - I stream Spotify daily and admire the quality of the music. But I'm equally pleased with the quality of vinyl being played on the the same system. Your's shouldn't sound inferior.
Click to expand...
No, it's not dramatically inferior, although critical listening you might say not quite a precise. The point is, unless it knocks the socks off Spotify or digital downloads, what's the point?

I have done all the turntable, arm and cartridge adjustments myself, carefully, to instructions I found (mostly on here). But I am an amateur, and I don't have another similar deck to compare it by. I have checked it all with the Hifi News Test Record though, and it's fine, so pretty sure there's nothing major amiss there!
 
Why not try a different cartridge? Audio Technica has a more detailed forward sound (CD). Maybe your just not diggin' the Nagaoka "House" sound. The new Audio Technica cartridges are a good match for your Thorens arm.
 
I'm really interested to follow this along. My 2M Bronze is settling in and the bass of the turntable setup doesn't seem to match that of Spotify through a SONOS Connect into the same system. Would be interesting to see what steps can be followed to eliminate potential issues.
 
If you possess good hearing, and have spent decades listening to the relative perfection of digital, particularly its consistently extended top end and bottom end, you, like many others (myself included), will continue to be underwhelmed by vinyl playback- regardless of the cost or quality of it.

I have a TD160 and a TD145 and don't use them.

I recently had the pleasure of listening to the finest vinyl playback I've ever heard on six figure brand new gear, but my CDs sounded consistently better to me. I wanted to hear gear that was a quantum leap above my vinyl gear, but although lovely, I wouldn't swap my CD player for it. All vinyl is like someone has pressed the high and low filters to me.

Your experiences may be different and that is fine. :)
 
Last edited:
What you are describing sounds very much like why I went to CDs in 1987. I later found out the problem wasn't my turntable or stylus, but my receiver. This happened in the early 90s when I replaced my Marantz 1530 with an NAD 7240PE. The difference was astounding. I rediscovered all my records during that time.

I recently invited a fellow audio enthusiast over. We were listening to a reference cd version of Just another brick in the wall, when he wondered aloud if it sounded better in vinyl, or cd. I told him, let's find out! And put on the vinyl. He was blown away! He told me he hated me because now he had to find a copy of the record. This guy had some very serious gear too!

So basically, the phono preamp section. That being said, although I've heard wonderful things about Marantz, I've been underwhelmed by the results. All the preamps in my house have been fully restored if not optimized and restored.
 
Ilikevinyl said:
Why not try a different cartridge? Audio Technica has a more detailed forward sound (CD). Maybe your just not diggin' the Nagaoka "House" sound. The new Audio Technica cartridges are a good match for your Thorens arm.
Click to expand...

I agree with trying a whole different cart, even a good but modestly priced one, just to see if you're surprised by the difference enough to start searching for the perfect one.
 
First of all don't blame the vinyl right off. To get vinyl to sound better that CD, requires some work as you already know. It could be anything in the chain from stylus to speaker. Fully optimized, vinyl can and will sound at least as good as CD (digital), surpassing it at some point in a "good setup", and that is part of the problem with vinyl, getting a good setup.

At some point we all decide if it is really worth it. To some it is not worth it. What's it worth to you.
 
How good is the DAC in the Apple? It's possible that the DC is adding a little boost to the midrange that makes it sound "better". Your digital will always sound different than the vinyl. Better is subjective and there are a multitude of inconsistent variables. And those vary from person to person.

It's very possible that there's nothing "wrong" with your vinyl rig. On the face of it I think it should sound kinda nice. Maybe you just prefer the digital sound. Be interesting to try another DAC to see what the effect would be.

and fwiw--I think my vinyl sounds better than my digital. Digital for hearing vinyl for listening.
 
Jon_Bawn said:
brand new vinlyl of the same albums, always vinyl (to my ears at least) is inferior.
Click to expand...
Well then listen to one of the many forms of digital.

Jon_Bawn said:
Listening on Sennheiser DH220 headphones
Click to expand...
Personally I don't like head phones, and I really wouldn't like them to listen to records.

Jon_Bawn said:
I can notice some slight distortion on the vinyl, but this might be what other people enjoy as "warmth".
Click to expand...
No that's not warmth, that's distortion as you said and can be coming from numerus things.

Jon_Bawn said:
My Thorens TD160MK1 has been set up and balanced properly. I added a heavy hardwood basebord and some extra dampling to the sub platter and chassis.
Click to expand...
Maybe you think you know how to build a better turntable than the manufacturer? Maybe you killed the life of the table, maybe your arm is resinating on that hard wood. MDF, Acrylic or Aluminum would have been a better choice.

Jon_Bawn said:
Anyone - AM I DOIND SOMETHING STUPID WRONG? Or is it simply that a good, well set up mid price turntable system does not sound as good as a cheap digital?
Click to expand...
I hate to tell you this, your table is not mid price and it's more mid line for Thorens to boot.

Jon_Bawn said:
Really am at the point of giving it up and selling the vinyl collection, turntable etc... just doesn't seem worth the trouble!

Any suggestions gratefully appreciated!
Click to expand...
I would give up as I don't think you want to really get into playing records

Jon_Bawn said:
No, it's not dramatically inferior, although critical listening you might say not quite a precise. The point is, unless it knocks the socks off Spotify or digital downloads, what's the point?
Click to expand...
The cheap rout is to go digital, if you expect digital SQ with records it take time, money, trial and error as well as work.
 
All I can say is with well over a 100 cartridges, probably 50 or 60+ turntables and countless repair and restorations of some lovely turntables, there's a point I reached where I just accepted I prefer CD over vinyl.

I love vinyl and vinyl playback gear. Most vintage HiFi was built and designed in and around a vinyl front end, and to not have several decent TTs in the house at any given time, is doing the hobby an injustice IMO. Just as I have various RTRs, cassette decks, DATs and CD players- I love them all. But the carrier of choice and the one I listen to the most is CD.

For many here, vinyl is their carrier of choice and the TTs that go with it. That's perfectly fine. In fact it would be really boring if everyone was the same.
 
Apple and oranges bro.

Vinyl does sound different. Plus your digital sources and playback systems are proabbly processing the signal to "optimise" the sound.

Nothing wrong with giving the phono signal a bit of EQ or something to make it more to your liking.

The records you are playing, the quality of the phono stage, the arm setup all have a bearing on the sound you will get.

Plus I second what others say about headphone. I wouldnt enjoy listening to records on them - I also dont think a lot of records would withstand close scrutiny ! (ie: if they are a bit olde etc).

Each to their own anyway.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom