Solution:
Send all of your records & turntable to me, I'll make sure they get the respect they deserve lol.
Send all of your records & turntable to me, I'll make sure they get the respect they deserve lol.
Why does my Thorens TD160 turntable sound worse than Spotify?
- Thread starter TellMeWhy
- Start date
try1256
Super Member
I also have a TD-160 mk I which I have done all of the common modifications to as well as a couple more. I originally had the TP-16 arm and thought it was pretty good, until I mounted the SME M2-9. I was riding along just fine using my Audio Technica OC 9 ml II and thought that was really good. Until I mounted my Sound Smith Aida. Every step up, cartridge alignment and set up became more critical, but as it gets dialed in, the results are wonderful. My point? It is a journey. Everything you do to the signal chain, if done properly, will improve what you hear. I can tell you this, Azimuth is critical. If it is off, and it often is, it won't sound good. You said you heard a 6 figure system that didn't impress you. Thats common, depending on where you heard it and how it was set up. Even it it is set up well in a good room, it may sound foreign to you because it is so good. That sounds crazy but it is true. Bottom line, analog takes effort and if that isn't what you want to do, and listening to digital sources is better for you then just do that and enjoy.
Justin Brady
New Member
I find the sound to be "different" than digital, not better or worse. I honestly don't know which I prefer.
I do know that I much prefer the experience that vinyl gives. I enjoy the meticulous care of the albums, as well as the inability to have musical ADD (skip, skip, skip, skip) which I do often with digital and it really ruins the experience of just sitting and enjoying an album cover to cover.
To be able to get the SQ of a decent DAC and a good digital file you're going to be spending a loooot of money on a tt, cartridge etc. For some that's worth it, for some it's not.
I say just enjoy whichever you enjoy!
I do know that I much prefer the experience that vinyl gives. I enjoy the meticulous care of the albums, as well as the inability to have musical ADD (skip, skip, skip, skip) which I do often with digital and it really ruins the experience of just sitting and enjoying an album cover to cover.
To be able to get the SQ of a decent DAC and a good digital file you're going to be spending a loooot of money on a tt, cartridge etc. For some that's worth it, for some it's not.
I say just enjoy whichever you enjoy!
Bigboi33
Dazed and Confused
In past endeavors I have noticed an overly dampened turntable can kill the sound of some cartridges.
I wonder how the OP's Turntable rig would sound if the turntable was brought back to stock?
Either that or as other's have said the OP's ears have confirmed he prefer the sound delivery of digital.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
I wonder how the OP's Turntable rig would sound if the turntable was brought back to stock?
Either that or as other's have said the OP's ears have confirmed he prefer the sound delivery of digital.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Thomas_AA
Well-Known Member
CD is superior to vinyl, technically. There is situations when you come close
CD and Spotify is technically superior to vinyl. However, Spotify does not have everything, and certainly not everything in original mastering. If you compare an original CD with the corresponding vinyl, the digital will be more accurate with respect to noise, dynamic range and linearity.
That said, you can get better results with a good cartridge/stylus and MP110 is probably not one of them.
CD and Spotify is technically superior to vinyl. However, Spotify does not have everything, and certainly not everything in original mastering. If you compare an original CD with the corresponding vinyl, the digital will be more accurate with respect to noise, dynamic range and linearity.
That said, you can get better results with a good cartridge/stylus and MP110 is probably not one of them.
The problem with these blanket statements is that they assume that the mastering of the CD (which is also going to be the master for Spotify) doesn't sound worse than the mastering of the LP. Which it very well might. I'd give it at least even money.
Garbage in, garbage out. Always.
luke85
Super Member
superior how ? isnt Spotify compressed ?
Yeah, some of the responses here sound like an alternate universe.
In my world, it's Hi Res PCM/DSD > Vinyl > CD > Spotify/Pandora/YouTube/MP3s/other-digital-lossy-format. And the hierarchy is audibly clear as day.
To the OP -- if you're looking for air and soundstage, you could try the el-cheapo ART DJ Pre II phono preamp which does a remarkably good job with this. There's a slight tradeoff in overall tonal balance, but I'm a picky guy and the ART punches way above its price in terms of imaging.
Or if you REALLY want something wide and glorious, try a Denon DL-110 cartridge.
The fact that you're hearing distortion over headphones says to me that something's amiss. Could be stylus, could be setup, could be something strange in the arm bearings. If you try increasing VTF, does it improve at all?
Or if you REALLY want something wide and glorious, try a Denon DL-110 cartridge.
The fact that you're hearing distortion over headphones says to me that something's amiss. Could be stylus, could be setup, could be something strange in the arm bearings. If you try increasing VTF, does it improve at all?
Djcoolray
Addicted Member
Evidently the distortion levels between classic stereo equipment and digital are different. You would have to find a receiver with much lower distortion levels that match your previous digital experience like a Luxman R-115. Then of course if you use speakers that aren’t so sensitive you won’t hear any distortion either.
Condorsat
Audio Enthusiast
If Spotify (320k Ogg Vorbis) ... sounds better than your Vinyl ... you just saved yourself a boat load of $$$ (didn't have to switch to Geico either).
Time to do the victory dance and close the door on Vinyl.
Multiplex
Appease my earhole.
Is the original interconnect wiring on your Thorens the 6' long thin lamp-cord looking stuff? If so, that might have a lot to do with it. I wouldn't exactly guess that cord to be low capacitance. I had it on my TD-165, and it was the first thing to go. It made a big difference! At that length, it does tend to muddle the highs and damp the dynamics. A very short run of big fat low capacitance cable will restore what's been lost in the top end.
Another factor is the cartridge. It's plenty good, but definitely entry level. The MP-110 is known to be warm and soft in the top end. (I personally prefer that sound, but don't expect it to sound the same as digital. I also don't use a Marantz 2270 receiver. I've tried one before, and holy bass, Batman! The combination of the two might just be too warm.)
Exploring Audio Technica's lineup may be a great idea. If there are still any AT440MLBs left out there, that might be just what the doctor ordered.
Another factor is the cartridge. It's plenty good, but definitely entry level. The MP-110 is known to be warm and soft in the top end. (I personally prefer that sound, but don't expect it to sound the same as digital. I also don't use a Marantz 2270 receiver. I've tried one before, and holy bass, Batman! The combination of the two might just be too warm.)
Exploring Audio Technica's lineup may be a great idea. If there are still any AT440MLBs left out there, that might be just what the doctor ordered.
Thomas_AA
Well-Known Member
The debate about digital vs vinyl is so boring to bring up again so I will not repeat what has been said for decades. I've been there, done the tests, read results from others and have my conclusion. I also enjoy listening to all sources even though digital wins in quality.
luke85
Super Member
well u did bring it up......so i would like to hear your opinion
patient_ot
Super Member
Didn't we just have a thread like this? 
At any rate, I'll say it again. I think many people underestimate the amount of time, money, and general hassle it takes to get LP playback on par with decent digital playback.
Earlier today I was listening to a fancy audiophile LP pressing of an album I also have on a pretty good CD version. While the LP sounded very, very nice, I wouldn't necessarily say it blows the CD version I have out of the water - at least not on my modest system. Comparing A/B on megabuck testing rigs for both vinyl and CD might yield different results. Then again, they both might sound pretty good, just with subtle differences in tonality and emphasis of certain frequencies that may make one slightly preferable to the other depending on the tastes of the individual listener.
At any rate, I'll say it again. I think many people underestimate the amount of time, money, and general hassle it takes to get LP playback on par with decent digital playback.
Earlier today I was listening to a fancy audiophile LP pressing of an album I also have on a pretty good CD version. While the LP sounded very, very nice, I wouldn't necessarily say it blows the CD version I have out of the water - at least not on my modest system. Comparing A/B on megabuck testing rigs for both vinyl and CD might yield different results. Then again, they both might sound pretty good, just with subtle differences in tonality and emphasis of certain frequencies that may make one slightly preferable to the other depending on the tastes of the individual listener.
Thomas_AA
Well-Known Member
I can record an LP to digital and not be able to hear significant differences. However, it is not possible to do the reverse. You add noise, distortion, wow that is quite easy to differentiate with listening tests. It is far more difficult to hear difference between CD and 320k Ogg VOrbis.
dr*audio
Fish fingers and custard!
Everyone here has ignored the obvious (to me.)
1. What tool did you use to set up the stylus overhang?
2. Did you set the cartidge azimuth and how did you do it?
3. The TD-160 does not have VTA adjustment, you have to use spacers when mounting the cartridge. Did you set it so the arm is level during play? This is a starting point and not necessarily the optimum.
4. Are you using a record clamp?
1. What tool did you use to set up the stylus overhang?
2. Did you set the cartidge azimuth and how did you do it?
3. The TD-160 does not have VTA adjustment, you have to use spacers when mounting the cartridge. Did you set it so the arm is level during play? This is a starting point and not necessarily the optimum.
4. Are you using a record clamp?
FileFixer
Well-Known Member
OP says that he had TD-160 TT for ages ago and use it before and on that ages ago everything was be good. Maybe he dont align this TT befor and maybe some other do this and OP only play record from TT but I dont think that he do that?!
TellMeWhy
Active Member
Yep, fair enough. I agree about Spotify being compressed and to be fair, the title of the post was a little deliberately fire enticing in that way. But what I meant was, whether it's from my Teac PD-H500 CD player (forgot to mention that before), uncompressed digital through the Airport Express, or (sometimes even) Spotify, often the vinyl sounds no better- which I found surprising given the expense and effort!
Going back to it, listening on the Kef 103.2's, I can say that on certain records, vinyl sounds much fuller, less fatiguing, and in every way better. But on other pressings it's not so cut and dry. I know my Thorens set up is pretty entry level by high end stadards - but hell, it's not cheap, and has taken quite some time to get set up... But I guess, as many of you have said, it's a journey that requires a fair bit of tinkering. And the more money spent on it, the better it will sound. For now, I'm pretty happy with what I have
A great thread though, keep it going! ...
TellMeWhy
Active Member
Hey, thanks for the tips. I used the Thorens protractor to set up overhang... Unfortunately azimuth was done with a very basic spirit level, though I did check everything with the Hifi news test record afterwards and it seems pretty spot on...Again, VTA set by a spirit level held over the arm whilst in play position - very basis but not sure of a better way to do it! (ps it does have VTA adjustment)... No, I have never used a clamp....