Why does the actual turntable even matter?

[Tucker99]

Some sage advice from mprince, to take time to learn before lurching forward with imprudent purchases, the latter I know from experience.

As one builds out or upgrades a system just keep in mind that the end product, the sound you hear, is a function of ALL your components. There is nothing wrong with upgrading incrementally as budget and opportunities allow but do so knowing that the weaker/lesser components will reduce the expected/anticipated improvement of a new upgrade.

In response to the original question, yes, upgrading the cartridge on an average system should improve the listening experience. A friend with a very average system destroyed the stylus on an entry level AT cart. I replaced it with a Shure m91 and he commented that his system had never sounded so good...so a decent cart makes a difference. That said, I wouldn't spend $1k on a cart for his system... it's just never gonna be a brilliant system no matter what cartridge is installed.

 

[mprince]

Thanks Mprince.....can you recommend a receiver or amp with phono input? I think it's an amp or receiver i will be needing right? I already have some good speakers.

I don't have any recommendations, as those are very dependent on a lot of stuff (your room, your speakers, your preferences, your budget, etc.). If you think picking a turntable is confusing, it gets even more confusing when you get into receivers/integrated amps/preamps/amps as the possibilities increase exponentially.

 

[Grenadeslio]

I mean if the audio quality is just in the cartridge/head theoretically couldnt you take a POS table and just upgrade the cartridge to make it amazing? I do understand there is also build quality and motor etc but I guess what i'm saying is you can make any low end but decent table sound amazing right?

Well just for one the table has to deal with acoustic feedback, some are better than others at this. At that's just the tip of the iceberg as they say.

 

[tnsilver]

if the audio quality is just in the cartridge/head theoretically couldnt you take a POS table and just upgrade the cartridge to make it amazing?

I totally disagree with that initial assertion. The audio quality of an analog phonographic system is NOT "just" in the cartridge. There's a mile long list of electromechanic variables associated with the quality of a turntable that has nothing to do with the cartridge, and then a mile more having to do with environmental factors, not even mentioning psychoacoustics. The magic of vinyl loving IMO is pin pointed in that even low end, mid-fi and entry level gear can sound appealing to some. The vinyl experience is definitely different than digital. The mechanics and visualization of a turntable and it's clockworks while it 'makes music' can be mesmerizing and psychoacoustically mask the output quality to make it sound more likeable than it actually deserves. Experienced enthusiasts become aware eventually and tend to upgrade their turntables as the hobby grows on them and as they begin to realize the limits of their lesser playback systems.

It's always the same around here. Those with the lower end gear always looking for justification to never have to upgrade and those with the higher end gear telling them they're wrong. Both sides often employ ridiculous arguments on their behalf. There's no right or wrong! If you like it - it's right FOR YOU, but you'll never really know the potential until you get there.

 

[MCM_Fan]

Thanks Mprince.....can you recommend a receiver or amp with phono input? I think it's an amp or receiver i will be needing right? I already have some good speakers.

What speakers do you have? It's impossible to recommend a receiver or amplifier without knowing what they will be driving.

 

[techkiller80]

What speakers do you have? It's impossible to recommend a receiver or amplifier without knowing what they will be driving.

I have some really decent JBL speakers that i bought for my surround sound system that i'm no longer using. I don't know the model off the top of my head but they are good speakers. I think i paid around $400 about 20 years ago for them....not top of the line but still excellent speakers.

 

[MCM_Fan]

I have some really decent JBL speakers that i bought for my surround sound system that i'm no longer using. I don't know the model off the top of my head but they are good speakers. I think i paid around $400 about 20 years ago for them....not top of the line but still excellent speakers.

Still need to know the model number to look up the specs before making any specific recommendations for an amp or receiver. JBL has made a LOT of speakers over the years.

 

[808_state]

Hooked on Micro-Phonics.

 

[techkiller80]

Still need to know the model number to look up the specs before making any specific recommendations for an amp or receiver. JBL has made a LOT of speakers over the years.

My speakers are the 150SICEN (center speaker) and i have 2 surrounds (145SISAT)

Below are the specs for the 2 surround speakers

Satellites
Frequency Response
35Hz – 20kHz (–6dB)
Recommended Power
10 – 100 Watts
Impedance
8 Ohms nominal
Sensitivity
86dB @ 1 Watt/1 meter
Tweeter
One 1/2" (13mm) titanium-laminate dome,
video-shielded
Midrange
One 3" (75mm) driver, video-shielded
Dimensions (H x W x D)
4-3/8" x 3-3/16" x 3-3/4"
111mm x 81mm x 95mm
Weight
1.1 lb/0.5kg

 

[MCM_Fan]

My speakers are the 150SICEN (center speaker) and i have 2 surrounds (145SISAT)

Below are the specs for the 2 surround speakers

Satellites
Frequency Response
35Hz – 20kHz (–6dB)
Recommended Power
10 – 100 Watts
Impedance
8 Ohms nominal
Sensitivity
86dB @ 1 Watt/1 meter
Tweeter
One 1/2" (13mm) titanium-laminate dome,
video-shielded
Midrange
One 3" (75mm) driver, video-shielded
Dimensions (H x W x D)
4-3/8" x 3-3/16" x 3-3/4"
111mm x 81mm x 95mm
Weight
1.1 lb/0.5kg

Those are tiny little speakers. Pretty much anything you buy will be able to drive them fine. You won't need the center channel speaker.

Forget upgrading your turntable and cartridge. Your speakers will be the weak link, by far, in your system and the first thing you should consider upgrading - when the time comes. For now, get an amp/receiver, hook it all up, buy a couple records and start spinning some vinyl.

 

[techkiller80]

Now they want $50 for this Akai unit....ugh.....Is it worth spending the money? Or should i just spend the money and get a nice decent unit?

Those are tiny little speakers. Pretty much anything you buy will be able to drive them fine. You won't need the center channel speaker.

Forget upgrading your turntable and cartridge. Your speakers will be the weak link, by far, in your system and the first thing you should consider upgrading - when the time comes. For now, get an amp/receiver, hook it all up, buy a couple records and start spinning some vinyl.

Small in dimension yes....i mean they are left and right channel surround sound speakers but they can pack a punch....very heavy for their size. I dont know much about specs on speakers tbh but i remember listening to music on them and they sounded pretty good.

 

[lini]

tk80: Btw, for your Akai AP-A2 I'd suggest to consider the Audio Technica AT450 (= renamed AT316EP), which ebay vendor "wolfsbigbadgarage" still offers for not quite 66 bucks.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[MCM_Fan]

Now they want $50 for this Akai unit....ugh.....Is it worth spending the money? Or should i just spend the money and get a nice decent unit?

Small in dimension yes....i mean they are left and right channel surround sound speakers but they can pack a punch....very heavy for their size. I dont know much about specs on speakers tbh but i remember listening to music on them and they sounded pretty good.

Laws of physics apply. There are limitations to what a 3" woofer in a 4 3/8" x 3 3/16" x 3 3/4" can do. Getting a "better" turntable or cartridge won't make a bit of difference until you upgrade the speakers.

 

[techkiller80]

Laws of physics apply. There are limitations to what a 3" woofer in a 4 3/8" x 3 3/16" x 3 3/4" can do. Getting a "better" turntable or cartridge won't make a bit of difference until you upgrade the speakers.

Well we are building a new house....maybe i'll make an excuse and hook up my nice big Polk speakers to it

 

[lini]

tk80: Well, you can't really expect a decent bass extension from speakers of that size, but that's not much of a surprise, as these JBLs originally were part of a sub/satellite combo. I wouldn't quite concur with MCM_Fan, though, because what to upgrade first can also be a question of current opportunities.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[ctjetta]

Thanks Mprince.....can you recommend a receiver or amp with phono input? I think it's an amp or receiver i will be needing right? I already have some good speakers.

I am more than wiling to make a suggestion here-
First do you need a radio in your stereo? Most people answer "no". There is typically nothing worth listening to being broadcast these days.
If yes, consider a receiver. Lots to choose from.
If no, you're staring down the integrated amp or separates route. Separates, a pre-amp/power amp combo, are currently beyond your needs. Plus there is unnecessary added complexity at this stage of system growth for you.
This leaves the integrated amp. Many good examples out there with plenty of flexibility for system growth. You can add a tuner later, if you need to.
And forget the center channel. Two quality channels are all you need.
Currently, as an example (no affiliation) there's an ONKYO A-7 has undergone a complete rebuild and refurbishment at Barter Town (requires a well worth $25 membership fee to AK). It would make a fine start to quality system.
But, there are many other options as well.
Just keep asking questions

 

[Slick Willie]

It's all about control of the vibrations. Some designs/combinations do much better than others.
But yes, it could sound "amazing", but all is relative....what would that cart sound like on a better designed table?

 

[kaplang]

High end phono cartridge probably wouldn’t help.

 

[lini]

kaplang: Wow - I wasn't aware, that records would smoke such huge joints.

Grinnings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[MCM_Fan]

Well we are building a new house....maybe i'll make an excuse and hook up my nice big Polk speakers to it

Like JBL, Polk has made many speakers over many years covering the entire range of size, performance and price. If your Polks are halfway decent, I'd skip the little JBLs and go right for the Polks.