Why is the AR 3A so desirable?

[kfa888]

I had 3a's... Like them but they were semi fragile and took to much care for me. At the time I had KLH 23 (4 of them) which sounded almost as good in my system and were maintenance free. Sold the 3a's to a buddy who sold them after finding he liked his KLH 5's more. Really good speakers with a great historical background but for me just to much expensive upkeep. Every time I fired them up I wondered what would be up with them this time.

 

[johnjhazel]

I was just fooling around with my AR 3a's this afternoon. They were restored by Vintage AR. They have L-pads instead of pots, HiVi Q1R dome tweeters, and a crossover that is minus a 25 ohm resistor in both speakers. I decided to just forget about any 'logical' position of the midrange and level controls. I turned all the controls to the minimum which essentially is 'off'. I was surprised that I only had to turn them up a tiny bit to match the woofer level. This way they sound like I expect AR 3A's to sound. It is 'all there'.

 

[sberger]

I had 3a's... Like them but they were semi fragile and took to much care for me. At the time I had KLH 23 (4 of them) which sounded almost as good in my system and were maintenance free. Sold the 3a's to a buddy who sold them after finding he liked his KLH 5's more. Really good speakers with a great historical background but for me just to much expensive upkeep. Every time I fired them up I wondered what would be up with them this time.

Definitely need to watch the volume control when using 3/3a's. Which is why bigger, more powerful amps are recommended for them. Less chance of clipping means less chance of blowing out the fragile tweeters. I realize not always easy for some folks. There was a time when it wasn't easy for me(nor did I care about blowing out speakers at that time).

KLH Five's are fantastic speakers. Every time I swap mine in I realize I could easily live with them forever.

 

[johnjhazel]

Definitely need to watch the volume control when using 3/3a's. Which is why bigger, more powerful amps are recommended for them. Less chance of clipping means less chance of blowing out the fragile tweeters. I realize not always easy for some folks. There was a time when it wasn't easy for me(nor did I care about blowing out speakers at that time).

KLH Five's are fantastic speakers. Every time I swap mine in I realize I could easily live with them forever.

How does clipping fry AR mids and tweeters ? Is the clipped signal like DC(direct current) ?

 

[sberger]

How does clipping fry AR mids and tweeters ? Is the clipped signal like DC(direct current) ?

https://blog.teufelaudio.com/clipping-when-your-amplifier-is-no-match-for-your-speakers/

"A poorly aligned speaker system consisting of high-performance loudspeakers and a weak amplifier will be especially prone to clipping. If the loudspeakers do not receive enough power from the amplifier, they will automatically “demand” more than the amplifier can deliver. This can cause the speakers to become damaged.

Since a clipped signal contains a high number of high frequency harmonics, tweeters are especially at risk for damage. These high frequency tones not present in the original signal are directly fed to the tweeter by the speaker’s crossover. The result can be a burned voice coil, i.e. permanent damage to your system."

 

[jlovda]

How does clipping fry AR mids and tweeters ? Is the clipped signal like DC(direct current) ?

When you clip a sinewave you create a "sharp edge" to the wave form. A square wave is the ultimate example. These sharp edges are comprised of many higher frequency tones (harmonics) which can overheat a tweeter and destroy it.

 

[GD70]

I had 3a's... Like them but they were semi fragile and took to much care for me. At the time I had KLH 23 (4 of them) which sounded almost as good in my system and were maintenance free. Sold the 3a's to a buddy who sold them after finding he liked his KLH 5's more. Really good speakers with a great historical background but for me just to much expensive upkeep. Every time I fired them up I wondered what would be up with them this time.

When properly restored, there should be little upkeep necessary. They pretty much lasted 40-50+ years and for the most part still function in their original form.
The only thing that may need an annual or bi-annual check is the pots condition after their initial resto.

Glenn

 

[DAA]

Having owned AR3A and currently AR11B, I can confidently say the the evolution from good to excellent is real...

My 11s are lifetime speakers, sold the 3A for a tidy sum...you could be happy with either, to be honest....

 

[kirk57]

https://blog.teufelaudio.com/clipping-when-your-amplifier-is-no-match-for-your-speakers/

"A poorly aligned speaker system consisting of high-performance loudspeakers and a weak amplifier will be especially prone to clipping. If the loudspeakers do not receive enough power from the amplifier, they will automatically “demand” more than the amplifier can deliver. This can cause the speakers to become damaged.

Since a clipped signal contains a high number of high frequency harmonics, tweeters are especially at risk for damage. These high frequency tones not present in the original signal are directly fed to the tweeter by the speaker’s crossover. The result can be a burned voice coil, i.e. permanent damage to your system."

Ken Kantor says otherwise:

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/lets-talk-about-amplifier-clipping.549410/

I’m going to take his word for it.

 

[sberger]

Ken Kantor says otherwise:

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/lets-talk-about-amplifier-clipping.549410/

I’m going to take his word for it.

Sure go ahead. But I've been around AR speakers long enough to see people do more damage with low powered amps then high powered one's. Bottom line it's about getting all that the speakers are designed to deliver. I've used low and high watt amps, and both can sound good. But the lower power amps (less then 75 watts generally) have never been able to deliver the bottom end that the high watt amps can. Never. The lower watt amps can sound good, they can get pretty loud, but they didn't take full advantage of the power of that woofer on a 3/3a like a high watt, high current amp can even at low levels.

 

[Champco]

Great info, thank you and keep it coming. I enjoying hearing you opinions. My take on them visually is like others have mentioned here. The cabinet work looks very nice. Take off the grills and they look terrible. The first set I saw with the grills removed and the guy asking $1000 for them, I laughed. Shows you what I know.

First pair I saw looked like they had been reworked in a kindergarten classroom. There were no grill covers. The guy was asking $600. He couldnt play em. I lost all interest in the brand.

 

[GD70]

First pair I saw looked like they had been reworked in a kindergarten classroom. There were no grill covers. The guy was asking $600. He couldnt play em. I lost all interest in the brand.

That’s too bad. That guy was obviously riding the vintage AR high price wave. They are exceptional when properly restored. I hope one day you hear a pair of 3/3as that sound as they should.

 

[kirk57]

Sure go ahead. But I've been around AR speakers long enough to see people do more damage with low powered amps then high powered one's. Bottom line it's about getting all that the speakers are designed to deliver. I've used low and high watt amps, and both can sound good. But the lower power amps (less then 75 watts generally) have never been able to deliver the bottom end that the high watt amps can. Never. The lower watt amps can sound good, they can get pretty loud, but they didn't take full advantage of the power of that woofer on a 3/3a like a high watt, high current amp can even at low levels.

I agree that all the AR speakers I’ve had (AR3a, AR2ax, AR4x) sound better with higher power amps.

I do question the claim that “Since a clipped signal contains a high number of high frequency harmonics, tweeters are especially at risk for damage.” Ken Kantor’s post explains why this is not the case.

 

[macyjrm]

I’m listening to my 3s right now driven by a pair of MC60s. . So supremely satisfying. They just do everything right bottom to top.

 

[Bill Ashton]

@GD70 , what KLH model, that you had restored, did you exhibit at the most recent Frankenfest gatherings with your JVC equipment? I am not sure
that there is anything else made that could sound that good

That is certainly fodder for a "shoot-out" next time we can finally get together again: AR vs. KLH vs. whatever other classics...

EDIT: Would have to be an approximate "apples versus apples" demonstration though...Frank's folded horn models coming to mind!

 

[gggvan]

The Fall 2019 issue of The Absolute Sound listed the AR 3a as one of the "15 most significant loudspeakers of all time". Partly because it was a pioneer of acoustic suspension design as well as the points SW made above.
That kind of write up may make prices rise in the future.

Added--- As OJ mentioned below, they are extremely ugly with the grilles off. Crude looking.
Added again--- OOOOOPS, I was thinking of the AR 3's, not 3A.

yes, as they say, their a "double bagger". But I kinda like them, sometimes I play them w/o covers in the basement setup.

 

[sberger]

I agree that all the AR speakers I’ve had (AR3a, AR2ax, AR4x) sound better with higher power amps.

I do question the claim that “Since a clipped signal contains a high number of high frequency harmonics, tweeters are especially at risk for damage.” Ken Kantor’s post explains why this is not the case.

I’m ok with agreeing with Ken. But I stand behind my own experience of seeing more driver damage with 3/3a’s by using 25 watt solid state amps then one’s with 250 watts

 

[gggvan]

I must admit, I don't really understand all the technical gargon/technical stats etc. But I just upgraded to the #1 setup in my sig below and I was freakin' blown away by what the extra power did my restored 3A's. I have "industrial" cabs, its a refreshing change to the walnut, like Scandinavian modern. Anyway, if I close my eyes I swear someone is actually playing drums a few feet from me, and I can literally hear the percussion sound part of the finger plucking the bass string (if you know what i mean). And at the same time, the high end is nicely separated.

 

[gggvan]

I am an AR guy who has been thru dozens of 3a's and 3's...not to mention many other AR series. I have kept some 3a's and 3's for the mid and wonderful bass.

One other reason....no depreciation because of collectability. One mentions new speakers that might outperform...but the depreciation is horrible for new. I can get wonderful sound without throwing away thousands of dollars....

yes...what he said. always a plus.

 

[jeanmarie]

I have amassed 3 pr. But still listen to my jbl l300 summits