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Why no fully equipped surround sound receivers with no amps?

H

handyguy

Member
I have a Yamaha surround sound receiver with all the bells and whistles, including many channels of amplification. However, I use all separate power amps, so this a bit of overkill.
Since that is a major expense in these units, why not make something that has all the bells, but no amps? It would be low profile, lower cost and presumably open up a market that is currently underserved. AFAIK, there are no low cost, low profile receiver/pre-amps that have a phono stage, tuner, DSP hall simulation and surround sound at a reasonable cost. Please correct me if I am wrong?
 
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This is just one company, but Processors have and still are made by most companies.

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Processors

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What it comes down to is that there is limited demand. Modern electronics manufactured by large companies are relatively inexpensive to make (even higher end models) so there wouldn't be much savings from leaving the amp circuitry out vs the additional expense of building, documenting and marketing an additional model or models. You'll notice that for manufacturers that do make surround processors as well as receivers, there is typically only one, based on the top model receiver.
 
handyguy said:
I have a Yamaha surround sound receiver with all the bells and whistles, including many channels of amplification. However, I use all separate power amps, so this a bit of overkill.
Since that is a major expense in these units, why not make something that has all the bells, but no amps? It would be low profile, lower cost and presumably open up a market that is currently underserved. AFAIK, there are no low cost, low profile receiver/pre-amps that have a phono stage, tuner, DSP hall simulation and surround sound at a reasonable cost. Please correct me if I am wrong?
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It's not an AVR. It's a Preamp-Processor. Which is used with separate power amplifiers as your channel count requires. They are not low profile, due to thermal (heat) management reasons. As they run hot by design.
 
BmWr75 said:
What do you consider "reasonable cost"?
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A full featured av receiver can be had for ~<$1500, so why not not less than that? And contrary to above, the power supply, cooling, space, large semiconductors etc. needed for amplification are indeed a significant cost.
 
There are a few processors out there under $1500 (the Tonewinner AT-300 comes to mind) but I highly doubt you'll find one that includes a built-in phono stage and a radio tuner. That's a very niche market indeed, as most people who want an AV processor for use with power amps will typically spring for separate phono preamps and tuners. I wouldn't say it's a market that's under-served... if there was a sufficient market out there to make it commercially viable, it would already be served.

https://summithifiusa.com/collections/tonewinner/products/at-300-16-channel-pre-pro-releasing-soon
 
handyguy said:
A full featured av receiver can be had for ~<$1500, so why not not less than that? And contrary to above, the power supply, cooling, space, large semiconductors etc. needed for amplification are indeed a significant cost.
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Just a guess on my part, but AV preamp/processors are too small a niche market for the manufacturers to want to make a lower cost model. Another thought is when people decide to go the separates route for preamp and amps they are typically more high end than receivers.

FYI, just saw an ASR review on an expensive Emotiva AV preamp/processor. It tested poorly.
 
BmWr75 said:
FYI, just saw an ASR review on an expensive Emotiva AV preamp/processor. It tested poorly.
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A lot of AVR or pre/pros, and other stuff too, tests low on ASR.

My Marantz pre/pros do not test well, yet I have zero complaints about how they perform in my actual use case. It just goes to support when people say measurements aren't the end all, be all. More like, the importance of measurements is often used in a manner to suit the nature of the discussion.
 
handyguy said:
I have a Yamaha surround sound receiver with all the bells and whistles, including many channels of amplification. However, I use all separate power amps, so this a bit of overkill.
Since that is a major expense in these units, why not make something that has all the bells, but no amps? It would be low profile, lower cost and presumably open up a market that is currently underserved. AFAIK, there are no low cost, low profile receiver/pre-amps that have a phono stage, tuner, DSP hall simulation and surround sound at a reasonable cost. Please correct me if I am wrong?
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You could just buy an AVR in your price range and that has preamp outputs for all channels. Then just use it as as preamp/processor.
 
And that is often a suggestion, quite valid, because when it comes to AVR vs pre/pro, it's not unusual you're getting most, if not all, the pre/pro features in the AVR, and the amps are included, for similar if not lower price point.

Yes, I understand the question why is that, but I can only opine it's a combination of volume/economy of scale and perhaps a bit of status / marketing type thing mixed in.
 
Had an Integra Pre/Processor in my HT system for 10+ years. MSRP was $1500, but I bought it used at a couple years old for a bit under a grand.
7.1 capable. I have always run it with external amps, originally with JBL/UREI amps, most recently with B&K power amps and an HK Citation for the sub.
Its been in place through many varied speaker systems I've had - JBLs, DCM TimeFrames, Vandersteen, and JBL/UREI most recently.
No complaints, but obvious it doesn't do the latest/greatest processing modes.
Integra_Screen_5909.jpg

Integra-Settings_8434.jpg


Integra-Oppo-Roamio_8222.jpg
 
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Most people who do separates, do so to improve the quality of the sound. There is not a whole lot of demand for this, so the ones that exist are produced in limited qualities. As such, most preamp/processors, like most separates, tend towards the high end of the spectrum and there are few "entry level" separates, particularly with regard to surround processors. There are deals on the used market, however.
 
N0rt0n said:
This one has decent amplification and bells.
anthemav.com

Anthem MRX 740 8K AV Receiver | Dolby Atmos | ARC Genesis - AnthemAV

Experience pure performance with the Anthem MRX 740 8K A/V Receiver. Delivering 7-channel amplification, 8K HDMI 2.1, Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, and ARC Genesis for immersive home theater & enhanced 4K/120Hz gaming.
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The OP is asking why are there not pre/pros at materially lower cost than receivers, considering a pre/pro doesn't have the cost of multiple channels of amplification.

An Anthem MRX 1140 receiver is 15.2 channel capable with 11 channels of amplification built in. $4200 MSRP.

Anthem's cheapest pre/pro, also 15.2 capable, but no built in amplification, is $4000 MSRP.

In those examples the pre/pro is cheaper, but only incrementally so considering the receiver has 11 channels of amplification included.
 
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Not sure why you have those "extra amps" to power your system. And with a powered sub to provide the lows...more power at hand..

I've a Yamaha "Aventage" series A/V receiver that puts out more than my speakers (5.1 set-up) can handle , along with a powered sub, so you might want to consider one of these upper offerings. The extended warranty is also a plus.

Q
 
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