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Why no fully equipped surround sound receivers with no amps?

whoaru99 said:
Not clear on your point.

Is it subjective that $4000 is lower cost than $4200?
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My point is that 4k or 4.2k $$ is low cost to some, middle of the road for some, and high cost for some.

One of the reasons someones "budget" is good info in most threads about cost when looking for new gear.

I would never pay $4k for a HT processor, but I would for a 2 channel amp, pre-amp, TT ect. For me that would be on the upper end of my "mid level" price point.
 
Gotcha, and I agree, on the subjective nature of "low cost".

I was more focused on the point of pre/pro cost vs receiver cost.

I paid just short of $3k for an Anthem processor back in early or mid 2000s. Great unit, still have it, still works and has some nice features. But, times changed and along came HDMI, which the main reason I don't use it for HT anymore.

Now I use Marantz AV7005, Marantz AV7705, and an older Yamaha RX-V1700 receiver (in a small livingroom system).

Whilst I have some reasonably nice 2-ch gear, I use the HT stuff a lot more.
 
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hjames said:
Had an Integra Pre/Processor in my HT system
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Your main speakers certainly appear to be capable of large/full range performance, but curious on the center being set to large/full range. At least from the picture it doesn't seem like it would be commensurate with that setting.
 
Thats a Studio520c center speaker, just like the VCC1 Vandy that was there for a while - better than the TimePiece.
Its not the deepest bass, but it does try. JBL B460 sub does just fine in the front right corner.
I'd rather have another UREI 809A in the center, but I'd have to mount the Aquos monitor higher to fit a 5th one there.

Integra_Screen_5909.jpg

UREI 809A coaxials for mains and side surrounds. (the 520c center wasn't there Jan 2021 for this shot)
UREI809A-B460_3252.jpg
 
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Let's face it, there is a lot of wishful thinking/expectation bias in equipment selection, and I am not immune to that! My power amps are vintage with historical importance to me.
However, I have limited room and I would really like an affordable:-) low profile all-in-1, thus the desire for an AV receiver without the amps, which would presumably could easily be built low profile. I thought there would be a market for such a product, but given some of the thoughts above, maybe not.
 
handyguy said:
I thought there would be a market for such a product, but given some of the thoughts above, maybe not.
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As alluded, or perhaps said earlier, there is such a thing on the market, it's generally called a pre/pro (preamp / processor).

There is also the possibility of a receiver with pre outs that might be lower cost than a pre/pro.

The sticking point appears to be what you consider affordable and potentially the height, and seeming aversion to a receiver simply because it has amps, albeit potentially lower cost than pre/pro.

But, you've not provided any specific requirement for max cost or height (or much else).
 
whoaru99 said:
As alluded, or perhaps said earlier, there is such a thing on the market, it's generally called a pre/pro (preamp / processor).

There is also the possibility of a receiver with pre outs that might be lower cost than a pre/pro.

The sticking point appears to be what you consider affordable and potentially the height, and seeming aversion to a receiver simply because it has amps, albeit potentially lower cost than pre/pro.

But, you've not provided any specific requirement for max cost or height (or much else).
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Yep, they are out there, affordable and not.
 
With my earlier Surround systems I used a Harman Kardon AVR with discrete preamp outs and simply didn't use the internal amps for Front Mains and Sub, using beefier discrete power amp for Front mains and that external HK Citation 22 bridged to mono for 600watts for the Sub.
I did use the internal amps for side and rear surrounds ...
 
handyguy said:
Let's face it, there is a lot of wishful thinking/expectation bias in equipment selection, and I am not immune to that! My power amps are vintage with historical importance to me.
However, I have limited room and I would really like an affordable:) low profile all-in-1, thus the desire for an AV receiver without the amps, which would presumably could easily be built low profile. I thought there would be a market for such a product, but given some of the thoughts above, maybe not.
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If you want low profile and inexpensive, the Marantz NR series are reasonably priced and have discrete pre outs and pure direct mode for two channel operation. I have an NR1706 that I’ve been using for some time as a surround amp and now that my preamp is temporarily down, I’m using it with the pre-outs to drive my multi-amped mains. As a home theater amp, it’s totally fine for my needs; i mainly care about 2 channel sound and it’s more than good enough for me when I want to watch a movie or stream a show.
 
hjames said:
Had an Integra Pre/Processor in my HT system for 10+ years. MSRP was $1500, but I bought it used at a couple years old for a bit under a grand.
7.1 capable. I have always run it with external amps, originally with JBL/UREI amps, most recently with B&K power amps and an HK Citation for the sub.
Its been in place through many varied speaker systems I've had - JBLs, DCM TimeFrames, Vandersteen, and JBL/UREI most recently.
No complaints, but obvious it doesn't do the latest/greatest processing modes.
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As I do using my Integra brand open box discounted 2011 purchased Pre/Processer, though no video passes through it.
That function is handled externally through a 4K active external HDMI source selection device feeding the living room`s projector, and the only time it`s video output was ever used, was for the initial setup configuration & voicing/timing calibration .
 
One has to admit that there is a lot of wishful thinking/expectation bias going on in equipment selection, and I am certainly not immune to that. In fact, my power amplifiers have been selected mainly for nostalgia reasons! As I mentioned, I have limited room, so it should be possible to squeeze what I want into a low profile, lower cost product, but has been pointed out above, maybe not enough of a market for it.
 
Gigantic said:
If you want low profile and inexpensive, the Marantz NR series are reasonably priced and have discrete pre outs and pure direct mode for two channel operation. I have an NR1706 that I’ve been using for some time as a surround amp and now that my preamp is temporarily down, I’m using it with the pre-outs to drive my multi-amped mains. As a home theater amp, it’s totally fine for my needs; i mainly care about 2 channel sound and it’s more than good enough for me when I want to watch a movie or stream a show.
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Yes, I do like the Marantz Cinema 70S, the only thing it's missing is hall DSP, which I get on my Yamaha. Still has built in amps, but the pricing is good and it's low profile.
 
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Bill Ferris said:
As I do using my Integra brand open box discounted 2011 purchased Pre/Processer, though no video passes through it.
That function is handled externally through a 4K active external HDMI source selection device feeding the living room`s projector, and the only time it`s video output was ever used, was for the initial setup configuration & voicing/timing calibration .
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Oh, I do use the video switching in the Integra - Oppo Bluray, AppleTV, and a 10+yo TIVO Romio DVR - which also acts as a "streamer"
for Video and films stored on my Apple MX4 Studio via an app called "StreamBaby", plus internet access to Prime and YouTube.
 
hjames said:
Oh, I do use the video switching in the Integra - Oppo Bluray, AppleTV, and a 10+yo TIVO Romio DVR - which also acts as a "streamer"
for Video and films stored on my Apple MX4 Studio via an app called "StreamBaby", plus internet access to Prime and YouTube.
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Very good, Heather, my OPPO UHD-203 Universal, Mc. laser disc player (using a S-Video to HDMI up scaler) are my only video sources with well over 1,500, & still growing, BR/DVDs, and ~100 laserdiscs from the nineties, no outside video/audio sources desired, though back here on the laptop I do more recently often watch several hrs. of interesting YT Doc. type videos after scrolling through A/K`s new posts & any alerts, I guess that is in a sense, streaming.
 
whoaru99 said:
The OP is asking why are there not pre/pros at materially lower cost than receivers, considering a pre/pro doesn't have the cost of multiple channels of amplification.

An Anthem MRX 1140 receiver is 15.2 channel capable with 11 channels of amplification built in. $4200 MSRP.

Anthem's cheapest pre/pro, also 15.2 capable, but no built in amplification, is $4000 MSRP.

In those examples the pre/pro is cheaper, but only incrementally so considering the receiver has 11 channels of amplification included.
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Going to say after you hook up 11+ RCA cables, it's going to be a lot more expensive.
 
handyguy said:
A full featured av receiver can be had for ~<$1500, so why not not less than that? And contrary to above, the power supply, cooling, space, large semiconductors etc. needed for amplification are indeed a significant cost.
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Economy of scale. 200-300 AVR sales to maybe 1 preamp-processor. The latter will sell better in higher end brands to normal mainstream big box brands.
 
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