Why Our Hobby Won't Grow

[TejasRichard]

John, I couldn't agree with you more. I am so sick of this endless "no good new music" dirge. And frankly I'm tired of hearing about what the mainstream is/isn't doing, or does/doesn't think with reference to music in general, and hifi in particular. The Mainstream is dangerously close to the dull side of the blade. Dull in every sense of the word. You can keep that crap, as far as I'm concerned.If you haven't heard any good new music in 15 years, thats your own damn fault. I'll go so far as to say YOU are the problem, not the music industry or the record labels (though, god knows, they do enough other stuff that they should be slapped for). The music is out there, and it is FAR easier to find it than in the "good old days", when you never heard ANYTHING unless some top-40 DJ decided you would. Bunch of grown men crying in their beers cause their favorite topic ain't the top of the pops anymore. You know what else? I know a fair cross section of people across a broad range of ages, and I can't think of a single person over 40 that has a real stereo. Not one. What's my point? It's not just young people who don't know any better who aren't particular about sound quality. And I have a sneaky suspicion that back in the "Golden Age" of hifi, it was more about status than sound for the mainstream. In other words, they never really "got it" in the first place. Lord. Sorry for the rant, but speaking as someone who intimately connected to the independent music scene, I find the attitude that there is no good music being made to be highly insulting. I try to be thick skinned about it, but sometimes it gets to be too much. Basically all I'm saying is put on some tunes, grab a beer, cheer the f* up, and quit harshin' my buzz
It ain't all that bad, and its getting better ;-)

 

[marc mc]

Come on TejasRichard, don't hold back, say what your really mean:lmao:

BTW just an innocent observation. But the guys that I have heard say there is no good new music over the years, are all diehard Beatles fans. Just my observation. Who knows but maybe if you play a beatles album backwards, what it really says is "Everyone but the Beatles sucks". :scratch2:

marc mc

 

[70salesguy]

And I have a sneaky suspicion that back in the "Golden Age" of hifi, it was more about status than sound for the mainstream. In other words, they never really "got it" in the first place.

Speaking as one who was there in the 70s and was "behind the sales counter", I believe you are wrong on this point.

Sure, there have always been those folks who bought "whatever" at the time for "status". Be it stereo, camera, watches, cars, tennis rackets or lawnmowers, they are those who bought for status. But most folks I sold to in the 70s were interested in hearing the music, and they knew that up to the "point of diminishing returns", better gear bought you better sound.

I have no comments concerning the "independent" music scene or the availability or not of "good music".

 

[JohnVF]

I was in the apartment of a 25-year-old friend of my girlfriend the other day to check out something wrong with his stereo and he had an SX-1250 running through just the cubes from a bose acoustimas system, and not the double cubes that can point..just two single apx. 2.5" drivers. Talk about a 'WTF' moment. He'd picked up the receiver for $10 a few years ago, he said, and wondered if the problem in the sound was from it or the speakers. Hmmm.....

So yes, some of the young people don't have much of a clue. But some of us do. Just like those of any age.

 

[JohnVF]

I have no comments concerning the "independent" music scene or the availability or not of "good music".

Pretty much anything you're into is probably being made by somebody out there right now, outside the distribution networks of the major labels. Therefor, you have to ask around and look. I would hate for somebody to think there's nothing when in fact, there could honestly be something that floats whatever boat you want floated.

 

[analog addict]

I was in the apartment of a 25-year-old friend of my girlfriend the other day to check out something wrong with his stereo and he had an SX-1250 running through just the cubes from a bose acoustimas system, and not the double cubes that can point..just two single apx. 2.5" drivers. Talk about a 'WTF' moment. He'd picked up the receiver for $10 a few years ago, he said, and wondered if the problem in the sound was from it or the speakers. Hmmm.....

So yes, some of the young people don't have much of a clue. But some of us do. Just like those of any age.

I think you know the solution....Give him a bair of better speakers, and let the gear do the talking. And like any great idea, soon his friends will be lusting after good sounding audio....:yes:

I'm not worried. When my 13 yr old son dissappears to go spin vinyl on his TT rather than play XboX, I know we aren't done yet....:thmbsp:

 

[JohnVF]

I think you know the solution....Give him a bair of better speakers, and let the gear do the talking. And like any great idea, soon his friends will be lusting after good sounding audio....:yes:

I'm not worried. When my 13 yr old son dissappears to go spin vinyl on his TT rather than play XboX, I know we aren't done yet....:thmbsp:

That's exactly what I'm going to do, but we didn't have time to make the exchange that day. I have some Genesis 1s that will fill the bill...not too big, not too small..great simple introduction to audio. I did the same thing for another girl on my block with a while '70s system. I'm like Stereo Claus in my neighborhood of hipsters.

 

[marqueemoon]

I would mourn the death of the hi-fi industry less than the death of the independent music industry. If it means listening to newly written songs from fresh talent on an iPod vs amazingly recorded standards on electrostats, so be it.

:yes:

...but I'm not worried. Distribution has always been a challenge for independent artists, but memory gets cheaper and download speeds improve every day. :thmbsp:

 

[andy]

...And I have a sneaky suspicion that back in the "Golden Age" of hifi, it was more about status than sound for the mainstream. In other words, they never really "got it" in the first place. ...

You mean like home theater systems and 3000W car systems are right now?

 

[terra1]

I wouldn't use article as a state of the hobby premise...

By the title I would have thought this might have been a concern about the longevity of the equipment itself as a threat.

The Wired article is a lament and another opinion article to get readers thinking. It's what magazines do. Another bash and rehash the younger generation article. Sounds familiar, eh? I mean, weren't we young once and given the same "what's this generation coming to" line? I was bored when Wired was in pretentious paper form, I'm glad to see it hasn't lost it's bluster.

As mentioned, there has always been a "good enough cheap enough" segment. There is also a "I want better fidelity and quality as I can afford it" niche.

As more estate sales and boomers pass on or downsize, you will see periodic surges. And craigslist and eBay will continue to feed the frenzy and stir the pot.

There has always been a steady call for vintage cars, furniture, and art. Even in hard economic times. As long as we pass on our interest from generation to generation, friend to friend, the hobby will still be there. As long as some people want better, it'll still be there. It's the Tom Joad principle. It's how the hobby self-perpetuates. It's societal-hysteria independent.

Crap, it would be wonderful if it does die down so we can get more scores on craigslist and less competition on eBay. That would be the true barometer I guess.

 

[Dr. Music]

I feel our hobby won't grow because it isn't as mainstream as it was 30 years ago - video in the comfort of the home came along and pushed it aside, and fewer hi fidelity systems are sold as a result. In the 70's, if you didn't like what was on television you were SOL. With the advent of recorded media and cable you have an enormous video library at your fingertips. When most people relax they aren't doing so by listening to music, they're watching the 'idiot box'......I can't begin to name all the people I know who have their TVs on from the time they get home from work until the time they go to sleep.....and some even go to sleep with it on.

Happily I am not one of those people, nor will I be. Do I think theres room for hi-fi and HD? Sure, but I'm not the mainstream!

 

[JohnVF]

A friend of mine in NYC got one of those Crosley plastic record players and now she wanders around Manhattan and Brooklyn looking for records. Prior to this she was a download fiend, with thousands of MP3s. Obviously something was lacking for her, and she said she loves looking for vinyl. I sense that some people are starting to get sick of the intangible/disposable nature of digital downloads. I hope she get's to hear a decent turntable system in her travels so that she can start collecting vinyl for how well it sounds, in addition to all the other things it offers over digital downloads.

 

[TejasRichard]

Speaking as one who was there in the 70s and was "behind the sales counter", I believe you are wrong on this point.

Sure, there have always been those folks who bought "whatever" at the time for "status". Be it stereo, camera, watches, cars, tennis rackets or lawnmowers, they are those who bought for status. But most folks I sold to in the 70s were interested in hearing the music, and they knew that up to the "point of diminishing returns", better gear bought you better sound.

I have no comments concerning the "independent" music scene or the availability or not of "good music".

You may very well be right. I wasn't there, and I'll be the first to admit my theory is based on conjecture. But, if you are right, we're up against a conundrum. If all those folks who bought hifi back then "get it" and care about sound quality, who the hell is buying the Bose wave radio?
Also, and certainly no offence meant, but the perspective you would get from working in a stereo shop is going to be skewed. Think about it this way, if you took 1000 people off the street, and 1000 people you found in a stereo shop, logic should tell you which group is more likely to care about sound quality. How might your experience have been different if you had worked the electronics counter at kmart? But again, my end is all conjecture. It just doesn't make sense to me that millions of people could truly care about hifi, and then those same people not care a whit about fidelity scant 30 years later. Not saying it couldn't (or didn't) happen, I just don't understand why if it did.
Again, sorry about the vitriol earlier.

Andy: I'm right with you, for the most part. I do think HT done right can be awesome, but most people don't have either the space, time, or knowhow to set it up properly. You have to have all three, or it's gonna be mediocre at best.

 

[analog addict]

That's exactly what I'm going to do, but we didn't have time to make the exchange that day. I have some Genesis 1s that will fill the bill...not too big, not too small..great simple introduction to audio. I did the same thing for another girl on my block with a while '70s system. I'm like Stereo Claus in my neighborhood of hipsters.

Genesis 1's and a SX-1250 will rock his world. Good choice!

 

[70salesguy]

If all those folks who bought hifi back then "get it" and care about sound quality, who the hell is buying the Bose wave radio?

People who "grew up", had families, sold, gave-away or trashed those systems and now that they're in their 50s, 60s or 70s, believe the drivel in the advertisements about the "Wave".

They have downsized their homes, wear hearing aids and listen to music as a background source. They have other issues like health to worry about and businesses to run as well as raising their grandchildren because their kid is a worthless P.O.S. and an unfit parent.

 

[geiman]

Speaking as one who was there in the 70s and was "behind the sales counter", I believe you are wrong on this point.

Sure, there have always been those folks who bought "whatever" at the time for "status". Be it stereo, camera, watches, cars, tennis rackets or lawnmowers, they are those who bought for status. But most folks I sold to in the 70s were interested in hearing the music, and they knew that up to the "point of diminishing returns", better gear bought you better sound.

I have no comments concerning the "independent" music scene or the availability or not of "good music".

I too was in audio sales in the 70's and you are right 70's salesguy. Most would buy up to the point of diminishing returns.
Most of us behind the counter would try to help the customer get the best sounding stuff for his money. We wanted to do this well, we wanted our customers back for upgrades and accessories and blank media.

 

[marc mc]

I too was in audio sales in the 70's and you are right 70's salesguy. Most would buy up to the point of diminishing returns.
Most of us behind the counter would try to help the customer get the best sounding stuff for his money. We wanted to do this well, we wanted our customers back for upgrades and accessories and blank media.

I joined the bandwagon in the early 80's and know the important role the local audio dealer played in this hobby. I also remember the appliance stores putting the squeeze on some of them along with the Crazy whoever stores with big blow out sales on mass market gear.

I think the internet did a pretty serious number on what stores remained. Today anyone is the Crazy whoever of the past and most buy used via private sale. I still know and buy from dealers but today many run things out of houses and have another job as well. But I get to hear the state of the art when I want and talk to them about what they see and hear on a daily bases, concerning who is buying what. The internet gives everything a bigger footprint than it really has. And the magazines reviewing products that sell in very small numbers only adds to the illusion. Check out the big shows and it's the same guys with the same gear at astronomical prices.

The silent generation dying has flooded the market with "vintage" gear that is dirt cheap. Much of which was rejected by audiophiles as mass market in it's day. This coupled with the retiring boomer audiophiles that are buying their last system has kept things selling at both "thrift stores" and "audio boutiques" but the life blood of this hobby IMO is long gone. And I think anyone that was around 20 years ago knows it. The VPI', Rega's, Creeks and companies that had sound buisness models from the 80's have survived but their is very few break out products that show up and kick everyones ass. I miss the days when a guy would send shock waves through the industry with his giant killer like the energy 22's or the NAD 3020 integrated.

marc mc

 

[Dr Tinear]

I joined the bandwagon in the early 80's and know the important role the local audio dealer played in this hobby. I also remember the appliance stores putting the squeeze on some of them along with the Crazy whoever stores with big blow out sales on mass market gear.

I think the internet did a pretty serious number on what stores remained. Today anyone is the Crazy whoever of the past and most buy used via private sale. I still know and buy from dealers but today many run things out of houses and have another job as well. But I get to hear the state of the art when I want and talk to them about what they see and hear on a daily bases, concerning who is buying what. The internet gives everything a bigger footprint than it really has. And the magazines reviewing products that sell in very small numbers only adds to the illusion. Check out the big shows and it's the same guys with the same gear at astronomical prices.

The silent generation dying has flooded the market with "vintage" gear that is dirt cheap. Much of which was rejected by audiophiles as mass market in it's day. This coupled with the retiring boomer audiophiles that are buying their last system has kept things selling at both "thrift stores" and "audio boutiques" but the life blood of this hobby IMO is long gone. And I think anyone that was around 20 years ago knows it. The VPI', Rega's, Creeks and companies that had sound buisness models from the 80's have survived but their is very few break out products that show up and kick everyones ass. I miss the days when a guy would send shock waves through the industry with his giant killer like the energy 22's or the NAD 3020 integrated.

marc mc

I've been in this game since the mid-1970s, and I have to agree that the audio hobby is a mere shadow of what it was back then. The mass market has largely gone over to the Dark Side (home theater and lifestyle audio) and the high end has completely lost the concept of value for money. If it weren't for a handful of companies such as NAD and Adcom offering decent gear at real-world prices, music lovers of average means would be completely shut out of the hobby. It saddens me deeply to see this happening to a hobby that once meant so much to me.

 

[marc mc]

If it weren't for a handful of companies such as NAD and Adcom offering decent gear at real-world prices,

I should have added the Adcom 535MKII to my giant killer list. Still a personal favorite that has been with me all these years. :thmbsp:

marc mc

 

[guest102]

Music, Gear, and Women's Clothes

Up front I would not trade the woman in my life for any other. We complement each other and give each other room to pursue the idiosyncratic whims that make us 'us'. She collects shoes and clothes the way I collect recorded rock music. In following her around during her weekend sequin-and-satin safaris - which usually begin after a sad examination of the dozens upon dozens of her closet possibilities which usually ends in an anguished "nothing to wear" exclamation - I have noticed that most all stores we visit have womens' essentials (clothes, perfumes, cosmetics, and jewelry) closest to all main entry points. This makes it convenient for her to plunge into veritable seas of varying degrees of fashion, fabric, and footwear only to re-emerge forty-five minutes later carrying either next to nothing or nothing and saying there was nothing to buy. Now, before any of you chauvinistic readers have your say about this scenario, I am the same way in a big music store. I have been collecting recorded music since the mid-60s. By now I pretty much have what I want to listen to. Entering a multi-square-acre mall music store with it's seas of possibilities and finding something to bring home is the exception to the rule. For all the offerings in the big mall music stores, I, too, am finding nothing to buy. Just like shopping for clothes, the novelty and magic that make a prospective purchase attractive just aren't there. Somehow the offerings and expectations are out of sync.

As for gear, audio was fun in the late '70s and the '80s. The gear owner had his tape machines to clean and demagnetize and turntables and cartridges to fiddle with. There was gear owner involvement. Digital music took all that away. Of late it seems the only thing the Home Entertainment Industry is good for is selling product and then abandoning the formats in which the product was marketed. If the A/V hobbyist is in any danger it is from an industry doing it's utmost to kill its markets and itself. If it ever comes to a point where everyone gets tired of the B.S. and "the hobby" implodes I'll just get out my old telescope and sit out in the yard at night counting rocks on the Moon, at least until Sony buys the sky and charges me for looking at that.:grumpy: