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Why Our Hobby Won't Grow

marc mc said:
Cripes! were have you been. If you haven't heard anything good in the last 15 years. You might want to consider something else as the source of the problem.

marc mc
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OK , bit of an exaggeration , but not too much. I was trying to say (poorly,it seems) that a lot of music isn't mixed , mastered or produced worth a flip because so many playback formats and systems are sub-par. There is also the possibility I've forgotten how much bad stuff was released during my 'golden age' of music. :) I have some recent (?) stuff that I like , but I just can't stand most of it.
 
These things run in cycles. Today's average non music loving college kid has more music on his or her ipod than a hard core collector had 30 years ago, and far more than the average kid had back then. As storage space gets cheaper, music files may not need to be compressed in the future, and the door will again be open to high quality mass market audio.

Most will probably not care about audio, but some small percentage will, and will have the money to pursue their hobby. And some companies, probably some outfits nobody has every heard of today, will come up with the high quality audio to sell to these future audiophiles.
 
But wait!!!
We may not be large in number, but the folks listening to their iPods and MP3's will "accidently discover" some old analog device and go WOW!
As I did when I bought a couple of older US made cars with decent cassette decks and fairly nice audio systems. It'ssss so good to hear that audio again!

Fred
 
Sorry but it won't happen like the article says. As people mature they want better things. When I was 17-18 a GE portable turntable with those god awful speakers that detached was just great. Now with a little improvement in taste I prefer and enjoy more sophisticated equipment and the wonderful sound it reproduces. This article does nothing but state the obvious that people will settle for an inferior product. People always have. The quick and the easy is human nature. But with age, culture and refinement is often a byproduct. An example is my 25 year old loves techno and game music. I told him about the much better format of Flac files. The next time he visited he said he won't download a MP3 if a Flac is available and no MP3 at less than 320. As a side bar. There is now more and more vintage stereo stuff showing up at antique radio meets. One of the guys I use to compete with for Zenith radios is now my competitor for vintage stereo. As I bought my Pilot 602 from a vendor he was giving the poor guy static for not getting a hold of him first. I think the hobby will grow. Vinyl is the only store bought format that is growing which is another example people looking for better stuff.
 
When I was growing up it was no different. Growing up in a middle-class neighborhood no one that I knew had a great stereo system. We liked our music on the go also, but we had transistor radios, portable 8 tracks, cassette players and portable record changers with a single speaker. We thought it sounded great until we discovered hi-fi equipment. Young people like MP3 players because their cheap, sound half-way decent and convenient. Some will step up to hi-fi equipment because of out of curiosity, but most others won't.
 
In the '60s & '70s I can think of only one of my dad's friends that was big into audio. My dad had a McIntosh MC275, C26, Ampex & Sony R2R, and Bozak speakers. His friend built all his own Dynaco components and had EV corner horns. So I don't know how much that has changed, but my point is that I don't know that a bigger pct of people loved hi-fi audio back then. All of my parents' other friends listened using utter junk... chintzy portable record changers with the electronics & speakers built in, all-in-ones with receiver, changer, and 8-track... you know the deal.
 
Duane said:
From the time my daughter was born, she was exposed to the "hi-fi" environment, and was allowed to partake in some of the physical operating of that equipment. She didn't understand it but she liked sitting with me and listening to it. I also have a step daughter who is about the same age and when she was a teen, I bought her an inexpensive NAD receiver..she didn't care. What they wanted was something simple to use ans the quality of the sound took a back seat. Same goes for a lot of people in my age group...they didn't care,FM radio was fine.

My two oldest granddaughters were exposed to higher end electronics from the time they could crawl. They knew enough to keep their hands off but they just never felt the need to query as to what they saw or heard,as long as they were entertained, they were happy. Today, they're bot in their middle teens and they are deeply imbedded in the current digital tech that surrounds them. They don't care whether the sound they hear are compressed, they don't even understand the concept.All they know is that it's portable. These two were exposed to some really high end equipment, including a full blown home theater with a decent CRT projector and screen plus the audio...all they knew is that they could watch a movie, not what it looked like or how it sounded.

One of the granddaughters has a fairly good idea that there is better sound, but she is tied to the current generation of kids who have an umbilical cord tied to their phones and ipods...take that away from them and they don't know how to function.

It's been my observation over these past 50 years or so that there's always been a niche group of individuals who have the desire to spend what they can to achieve the best sound that they can afford. As we all know, this can run the gamut. But these individuals are somewhat obsessed.

I guess my point is this. Most people enjoy music, not all care to spend money to up the quality of the sound they hear. And when it really gets down to it, isn't this all about the music?
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OK, it is now time for one of the younger generation folks to chime in :D.

Yes, I completely agree that we live in a society that thinks that "smaller" is better, unless you own a Cadillac Escalade, or something like that.

Personally, I too was exposed to high-fidelity since well, before I was born :banana:, and while my brother was exposed to it as well, he may understand the difference in sound, he just doesn't care. I am another story. I was always enamored with my dad's stereo, and always told him that I would own one "just like his". Fortunately enough for me, this has come true, thanks to some help from my friends, and my dad (hermetically sealed-is there any other way Dad? :D).

I find that it is hard for me to fit in with the younger generation, just because I don't possess the "disposable mentality". If something breaks, I fix it (if I can). If there is nothing wrong with it, I don't go out and get the new one just because it is "the latest and greatest". I never did understand that.

One of my biggest pet peeves with people my age these days is that they are always glued to the cell phone. Why don't you just have is surgically attached to the side of your head, and save us all the trouble. I didn't get my first cell phone until I turned 18 (I'm 24 now), and in retrospect, I am glad that my parents didn't let me get one when I was 15. It gave me a greater appreciation for it when I did get it. I got it with my own money, and my own hard work. Oh look, another value that is quickly getting lost one today's youth.

Sorry to go off the deep end on everyone, but I am one of those young people who is disappointed with others my age. I think that with the decline in traditional values, consumerism is what now drives this market. Maybe as they get older they will learn to appreciate quality, not only in stereo, but in everything else as well.

Back to the quote, yes, it is about the music first. Otherwise, why would we be here. However, quality holds a delicate balance with music for me. I have to have some sort of quality if I want to listen to music. I do make an exception for the car though. There is nothing musically accurate about a car, and nothing anyone does can change that. Road noise, car noise, and many other factors distract us from the music, and take away the subtle nuances that we so enjoy hearing on our home stereo.

OK, I'm climbing down from the soapbox.....whew! :D


-Jason


PS-Thanks, Dad.
 
Andyman said:
I started a similar thread a few weeks back when I moved my daughter into her college dorm. Didn't see a single "stereo"; not even a set of Minimus 7 sized speakers.
They may know what a good system sound like, but they aren't listening to or buying them.
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I came back from holiday in Greece to hear that my neighbor across the street had moved his freshman son into his Univ. of Michigan dorm with the 70's vintage Kenwood receiver and speakers I gave him for his high school graduation present. Strictly mid-line (50 WPC receiver for $25 and large kabuki-style speakers acquired from a fellow AK'er), but this thing is apparently the hit of the dorm, with sounds rocking all the way down the hall. Exactly what I'd hoped when I procured the stuff and gave it too him. There is a bit of hope left.
 
JohnVF said:
I think the threat is going to be more directed at the mid-fi stuff (like the better quality receivers at Best Buy, etc) than it will be at the high end. I think there will always be a healthy bunch of individuals who really care about sound, the problem is, as the numbers go down, the price goes up. Just as their are studies that show some kids liking MP3 more than uncompressed audio, there's also a resurgence in vinyl among kids. It seems to be going in two directions, and the middle is where quality will disappear. Just my opinion (I follow market trends as part of my job and this is just a best guess scenario).
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I totally agree..nicely put:thmbsp:
 
hwirt said:
Just a quick reality check:

“At the moment (digital audio) it is about as far along as analogue was in the 1910s”

Wax cylinders (1910 tech) were limited to barely voice frequencies and signal to noise ratio was horrible, maybe 20 db or less.

“But one day (digital audio) it will have grown up and will truly compete with the older analogue systems”

Digital systems; especially professional recording systems has already eclipsed analogue.

“Think about it, if you could get 100 bit 500khz+ HD downloads”

100 bit at 500 KHz would translate to 600 Db dynamic range and a frequency response of 250 KHz. A ridicules waist of bandwidth, the threshold of pain is about 130 Db and human hearing is limited to about 18 KHz.

Please, lets keep it real......
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Ooook, here goes:

There is no really good comparison between the growth of digital and analog technology. The speed at which things are evolving today is MUCH faster than it was a century ago. The first digital recorders of the 1970s are a no contest winner against the wax recorders of the 1880s, or even the Telegraphones of the 1930s. I just wanted to point out digital is ONLY 30 years old. Give it a hundred years of development like analog has had and then see where it is. (Ohh, and i was thinking of 78s not wax cylinders. Granted, not much better, but not bad either.)

"Digital systems; especially professional recording systems has already eclipsed analogue."

I'm not even gonna touch this one because we all know what will happen. Nuff said.

"100 bit at 500 KHz would translate to 600 Db dynamic range and a frequency response of 250 KHz. A ridicules waist of bandwidth, the threshold of pain is about 130 Db and human hearing is limited to about 18 KHz."

I made those bit and sample rates intentionally ridiculous to show what many others have since posted, compression will be obsolete in the future. You'll be able to select any size and type of source that you desire. (Given that recording improoves as well to support this.) And i also imagine that some wild specs will indeed exist, as audiophiles will except nothing less. Just as some of them do today.

Ok, hope this brings it back to reality a little. I still believe that audio will be around a long, looong time. It just won't be the audio that folks know now. And that doesn't mean it will be bad either. (crosses fingers)
 
The curosity factor has also come into place. There are a lot of bands out there releasing
and re-realising their albums on vinyl. Making the fans start to wonder why? Maybe it would be cool to have a turntable and amp, i might look into this!
 
I believe this hobby of ours will grow due to the interesting in computer audio and home networking. When the popularity of home networks goes up products like a Linn DS, or any network attached hifi should be a hit. Just get some eastern manufacturing and you can have a digital streamer on the cheap. being able to be fully controlled by an iphone. I recently updated my whole house to this kind of setup and I cannot believe i actually used to listen to CDs. I think you have to be nuts to buy a expensive cd player now, who cares if it has a digital in, you are still paying 95% for the player. Who would of thought years ago that vinyl would outlive cd, its funny how things work out eh?
 
I think it might be good to define what this hobby is. Discussions like these can drift because the idea of "audio" is different for lots of AK members. It's important to consider a possibilty and thats the price of products made in China. Right now they are making gear for many of the big American, European audio companies. But what happens when they start to produce their own stuff. The point is we often discuss these things based on the products, prices and models we know. Some of us have said for a while that if their is a significant drop in the price of the state of the art then a new audio generation could emerge. Right now the market is focused on a small rich demographic.

marc mc
 
NanduAjit said:
Who would of thought years ago that vinyl would outlive cd, its funny how things work out eh?
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Outlive? Eh, I don't quite see that, or at least not presently. They coexist if anything. In the long run, who knows, but while many discuss the resurgence of vinyl, sales aren't exactly overwhelming. Last year there were 1.88 million new vinyl albums sold, an increase of 89% over what was sold in 2007. In comparison, CD album sales were 428 million. While in decline, CD sales are going to have to fall a long way, for a long time to see vinyl sales surpass them.

The CDs themselves only represent a storage medium, the process to play the music stored on them is effectively the same as something stored in whatever digital format on another storage medium. That process I don't see fading in popularity for a long, long time.

The method you mention regarding controlling a music feed from your phone is intriguing. No iPhone here -- Android/HTC Magic. I'll consider something like that in the future no doubt, but am in no hurry as of now.

John
 
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