• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Why Recap Speakers and When?

Dayton or Solen metalized polypropylene are both good caps with good ESR and test good and well inside their tolerance on capacitance. I haven't tested the Axon caps.

Bypassing the caps in a crossover is a totally meaningless exercise. Just put the value into a capacitive reactance formula and look at the impedance at audio frequencies of the 0.1 uF cap. The 0.1uF cap would have an impedance of 160 ohms at 10 Khz and 80 ohms at 20 Khz. Its effect would in my opinion be inaudible in any crossover circuit.

Bob Crites
 
http://ldsg.snippets.org/appdx-ec.php3#CAPS

"Whether it's an electrolytic, poly, or film and foil, a capacitor is a hermetically sealed device."

Most caps are unprotected. The epoxy end caps provide moisture resistance only. To be hermetically sealed, a cap must be sealed in metal or glass.

"Electrolytics also have an ESR about equivalent to Polypropylene caps then they are new."

http://my.execpc.com/~endlr/esr.html

In all cases, for any use, as low as possible is best for ESR in a capacitor.

Not if you want to maintain the original voicing of the speaker.:)
 
Say Hey Y'all I got some (4) Kenwood KL-7070's (US KL-888A) and 2 Kl-777D and 2 KL-888D. Who can tell me if they need recap the crossovers? The 7070 I have had for 34 years and sound great on my QX-949. The others just recieved from greatfull sellers on Ebay and have not connected to my other QX-949 in the bedroom. I am hoping for some input on this. I got my secound QX-949 from Cableguy, off the Ebay site. I gave him a hard time because he had not tested on 4CH. I have he even through he did not know how to change it. Powers over all of us meant it to be perfect and it was. So, I praise Cableguy for being so kind in his responses to me.
This is a great site for us Audio Lovers.
 
I finally got the 3-way Jensens recapped using a 1st order high pass method (with bypassing).

40µF (bypassed with .47µF film/foil) for the 8" mids, and 4µF (bypassed with .10µF film/foil) for the 3-1/2" tweeters.

Some of the old caps were off nearly 40%, which really manipulated the sound for the worse.

Thankfully, the recap put both cabinets back into a very similar audio spectrum; and properly dialed in the crossover points. No large humps or valleys.

What a pleasure it is to listen to these now after the tweeter x-over points aren't too low by a half octave; and the mid crossover points aren't too high by nearly a full octave!

After the break-in period they should be spectacular.

. . Falcon
 
I have a pair of late 70s Pioneer CS-99A speakers. They have 6 drivers per box, the very top highs are not there, it has the original caps and I am sure the drivers are not blown. This is something I will be doing soon to recover the highs.
 
I want to start updating/upgrading some of the internals (which probably will help the sound a lot more than externals) of my speakers, and particularly my amp. I would prefer to get all of the components at once, then do the work as time permits. Is there a short list of the best places to get the electronic bits and pieces?
 
Re cap

Scorpion8 said:
Howdy --

Been searching AK and reading old threads about recapping speakers. This was a good one: http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=74979&highlight=recapping+speakers.

My question however isn't answered in any of the posts. At what point does a speaker need to be re-capped? How many years after original purchase? How long in storage without any use before it's time to re-cap? Do the caps last longer if the speaker hasn't been played, or if it's been in constant use?

Thanks for the help!

I rebuild and retrofit a lot of 20+ year old speakers. I always recap the networks with newer poly caps and sometimes with Solens or Wonder caps for the high end is fairly cheap insurance. In the tweeter and mid circuts they make a noticable audible improvement over electrolutic types. I also recomend using a "bypass" cap with the tweeter cap to help clean up the upper harmonics. That is a low value (like a .22 ufd poly or mylar) wired in parallel with the tweeter cap. It's an old JBL trick I learned.
Old "lytic" type caps can just dry out from age, used or not. As for the caps used in the bass sections, I still replace the large values with electrolytic types for sensible cost saving and still good performance. 10% is common varience but 5% or less is best
DC
 
I can only speak for myself, but I feel it's best to recap any piece of gear after 20 years. I usually recap when the component needs repair for other than capicator failure. The overall sound difference is very noticeable. Cleaner and more open.

Ron
 
I've recapped speakers that have ranged from 15 to 35 years old using either polypropylene, Mylar or a mixture of both. In each case the difference was an astonishing improvement.

I would change out X-over electrolytics that are 10 to 15 years old. I could be blowing hot air, but this opinion is based on reports I have read about the optimum life of the electrolytic paste, as well as the effectiveness I have witnessed. Long dormant periods may be more harmful than than regularly applied current. Of course, if the owner is satisfied with something less than what the optimum may be allowing in performance, the speakers should play on for decades, as we have all experienced.

If you have a pair of older speakers you care about, I'd encourage you to recap now as opposed to waiting. Mylar caps are a good way to start — not too expensive, readily available and highly effective. Polypropes can scare you off due to their price and keep you waiting when you could be reaping the sonic benefits. Bennic brand (China) is a decent, affordable poly that has made a vast improvement in my latest project.

Some of these cap change outs may SEEM expensive, but when I go to the sound rooms and hear the shiny new products costing hundreds or thousands, I come away confirmed that fresh capacitors can make a pair of vintage speakers a brilliant opportunity. With tired caps they are just another old speaker — even really good ones!
 
As soon as I am done with my receivers, I will recap my Pioneer CS-99As late 70s speakers. They sound quite dull and yet are in mint cond. The super high tweeters barely play at all. Do you recommed using mylar caps instead of electrolytics? I was just going to match what is in there already with new.
 
DEFINATELY use the mylars or better poly, Parts Express carry Solens and they are pretty good- Wonder Caps being even better!
DC
 
Do you recommed using mylar caps instead of electrolytics?
Go with dc270's advice. If the electrolytics were the original type, replacing them with plastic caps will very likely change the way they sound. The chances are, if they are good speakers, the change will be for the better IMHO. There are a few enthusiasts who will not go to plastic caps for fear of changing the "voicing". It is one of those proverbial, old saws. Sometimes it takes some ingenuity to install the new caps because very likely they will be physically larger — sometimes a lot larger.

Mylar or Poly, this brand or that one? My two cents: go to Elliott Sound Products and read his research and opinion on caps. It may temper your bloodlust for outrageously costly caps. It is easy to spend hundreds of dollars recapping a 3-way design.

In my last speaker overhaul I used a mixture of Acro and Bennic polys as well as off-the-shelf Mitsubishi Mylar or polyester. The results were a transformational. I mean, it was not subtle. Other projects have yeilded similar results, including changeouts that used only polyester film caps.

Just get some plastic caps that you can afford and try them. They are much more suited for the purpose at hand than the electrolytic type.
 
Thanks Lorne, what kind of new characteristic did the sound take? My CS-99As sound quite dull, so anything will be an improvement.
 
Whaleman wrote:
Thanks Lorne, what kind of new characteristic did the sound take? My CS-99As sound quite dull, so anything will be an improvement.
Three separate cases. You should keep in mind some alterations that I made to the circuits in two of them:

Tannoy IIILZ (a sealed box, bookshelf design) with a 10 inch, Monitor Gold dual concentric driver: The original sound was pleasant and even articulate, but it lacked punch and bottom end. They sounded better when driven hard, and I knew that one side was dragging its feet. The gain and energy switches did not seem to provide any solutions in their operation. So, I replaced all the original electrolytics with common 5% Marcon polyester film caps. I had to wire them in parallel to produce exact replacement values. What I took to be the "polite British sound" of apocryphal reputation vanished. They were still euphonic and pleasant, but they now had a more distinct, dynamic range. They became more useful for a greater range of musical genres. The bottom end did not extend very much, but what was there blossomed. Low level, near-field listening became a late night pleasure. There was a whole world of detail that was not there before. I deleted the gain circuits, and I wired the network for 'flat'.

Pioneer CS-655 — a very nice Japanese, domestic, 3-way speaker model using coniferous ply, sealed boxes. I used the Mitsubishi Mylar or polyester film caps and made a piggyback circuit board for them. I deleted the gain pots (I wish I had left them in). Then I substituted R's for the pots as they would have been seen in 'flat' setting. The results were not as dramatic as in the case of the Tannoys. Perhaps the original caps were not as tired. But then, unlike your CS-99a’s and my old Tannoys, there was NOTHING dull about them to start with. Nevertheless, after recapping there was a bit more detail, and a bit richer bottom end — a worthwhile effort and worth the peace of mind.

Sansui SP-G88 — Three way using carbon fibre woofs and mids with a titanium driver. Astonishing improvement. Before recapping, this speaker was very impressive at extremely loud levels — I mean realistic night club dance mix wake up the neighbours dog howling antisocial mayhem — something I rarely do, and only when “she who must be obeyed” is outta town. That being said, they were otherwise boring and OK for running the family TV/DVD complex. Then one day I decided to recap them in stages. As I progressively changed out each cap, the sound got better and better. Now they are powerful and yet delicate. Detail has blossomed. I now hear tonal textures that were not obvious before — tonal texture such as the sound of a resined bow on strings, or the character of a Spanish guitar string. The human voice has become much more intimate. The bottom end has filled out and extended. Percussion has gained in tonal character. (I hate hearing just wacks and thuds). The sound stage has improved a lot too. These speakers have transformed into convincing and realistic musical instruments. There is so much more tonal character that I am experiencing the artistic intent in the music that was not available before. Very exciting. Except for a mixture of Mylar and polypropylene substitute, replacement caps, these speakers remain absolutely stock. Obviously, there was a LOT of speaker tech in there before I started.

In each exercise, I have gained something for no sustained losses.
 
Thanks for your very well articulated response, I simply cannot wait to get my CS-99As recapped.

Now for matching a hard cap, do you mean for example a 220uF 50 V cap run 2 110uF 50V caps in parallel? Or maybe 2 110 uF 25V in parallel?

Thanks.
 
This is a thread I will keep on watching. I definitely want to recap my Polk RT12's and 16's soon, and maybe my S8's. I think they are all probably approaching that magic age. Mr Crites, thank you for the excellent advice. Man, it's really wierd writing that. People call me Mr. Crites all the time, too. :yes:

Not too common a name, really.:no:
 
... do you mean for example a 220uF 50 V cap run 2 110uF 50V caps in parallel? Or maybe 2 110 uF 25V in parallel?
Capacitors in parallel, where Ct is the total capacitance: Ct= C1+C2+C3 ... Cn. Each cap will see the same voltage, and its rating will remain the same as specified on the jacket. (But for future reference, be aware that the maximum voltage that can be safely applied to paralleled capacitors is limited to the lowest rated cap in the configuration).

220uF seems a really big cap value! Is the stock cap a non-polar/bipolar electrolytic? (I'm betting that it is.) If so, and if it is on the woofer, you might be OK with another electrolytic. But someone should analyse the network circuit and advise you on whether or not it would be worth stacking up film caps. I would ensure that the voltage on each cap is at least the same as the original, because AFAIK, the voltage of an electrolytic cap can be commensurate with the performance and behaviour in the circuit. (Whether you would actually “hear” mismatches is another question). I would also match brands and the cap's specific series. This will be printed on the jacket in the form of an alphabetic code or series number. I've had no experience in network substitutes or replacements in excess of 50uF.
 
Back
Top Bottom