WiiM WiFi Streamer
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chicks
Lunatic Member
One of the nice features of LMS is that it can synch a stream to multiple endpoints, including Chromecast, DLNA and Sonos. While the audio synch isn't perfect, a great use case is having the Nest Hub, while muted, display the current track, while the sound plays via my Boston Acoustics speakers across the room via one of the LinkPlay boards. I'll start a playlist on Qobuz or Spotify, and, at a glance, can see what's playing on the BA's, while browsing the web on the 27" monitor. No need to bring up the LMS UI from the background.
Also, voice control (pause, resume) on the Nest Hub works for both connected devices.
Also, voice control (pause, resume) on the Nest Hub works for both connected devices.
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chicks
Lunatic Member
Found this review with measurements of the KEiiD unit at ASR. Not great, for sure, but right in there with some MUCH pricier DACs. Optical output, unfortunately, is fed through volume control, so will never be bit perfect, and appears to have a lot of noise. Still, I'm old enough to remember when 0.02% distortion was pretty good, lol.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/keiid-kd-w01-streaming-dac.15612/
No idea whether the Arylic boards and streamers perform better, but it sounds like it's a poor design by KEiiD, not the LinkPlay module.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/keiid-kd-w01-streaming-dac.15612/
No idea whether the Arylic boards and streamers perform better, but it sounds like it's a poor design by KEiiD, not the LinkPlay module.
Near as I can see, the KEiiD won't output Hi-Res through the coaxial or optical ports -
so its basically useless to feed a better quality DAC with ...
https://www.amazon.com/ask/questions/asin/B07WWNQJQK/6/ref=ask_ql_psf_ql_hza?isAnswered=true
"KEiiD Audio Seller" (vendor) has a list of 50+ Q and As on Amazon - and says-
Will this pass 24/192 over coax s/pdif? i need something like this for amazon ultra hd music.
Answer: Hi, It supports 24/44 over coax S/PDIF, when you stream 24/192 files, if its format can be supported, 24/192 will be output as 24/44, so the sound will be different from original 24/192 files. If you want to know more details or info, please contact us via email: service@keiid.com, we will response it within 12 hours.
KEiiD Audio basically says the same thing about their optical output -
How does this unit handle higher res files, like 192KHz files? Will it play them at a lower rate or not play them at all?
Answer: Hi, Usually, our optical port can only support 44 KHz 16 bit files, if you want to stream 192 KHz files, it will play them at a lower rate and the sound will be different from the original files. If you want to know details or info, please contact us via email: service@keiid.com, we will response it within 12 hours.
"KEiiD Audio" pretty much says it degrades Hi-Res to CD-quality through S/PDIF or Optical out.
SMSL M100 DAC with input data rate indicator. (roughly $100)
so its basically useless to feed a better quality DAC with ...
https://www.amazon.com/ask/questions/asin/B07WWNQJQK/6/ref=ask_ql_psf_ql_hza?isAnswered=true
"KEiiD Audio Seller" (vendor) has a list of 50+ Q and As on Amazon - and says-
Will this pass 24/192 over coax s/pdif? i need something like this for amazon ultra hd music.
Answer: Hi, It supports 24/44 over coax S/PDIF, when you stream 24/192 files, if its format can be supported, 24/192 will be output as 24/44, so the sound will be different from original 24/192 files. If you want to know more details or info, please contact us via email: service@keiid.com, we will response it within 12 hours.
KEiiD Audio basically says the same thing about their optical output -
How does this unit handle higher res files, like 192KHz files? Will it play them at a lower rate or not play them at all?
Answer: Hi, Usually, our optical port can only support 44 KHz 16 bit files, if you want to stream 192 KHz files, it will play them at a lower rate and the sound will be different from the original files. If you want to know details or info, please contact us via email: service@keiid.com, we will response it within 12 hours.
"KEiiD Audio" pretty much says it degrades Hi-Res to CD-quality through S/PDIF or Optical out.
SMSL M100 DAC with input data rate indicator. (roughly $100)
chicks
Lunatic Member
From Arylic's website, for their DIY boards:
DAC Board
Sample Rate up to: 24bit/192KHz
Dynamic Range: 112dB
Interchannel Isolation: 100dB
THD+N: 0dB FS 0.002%
SPDIF Out Board
Sample Rate is same as the connected board
So, their external DAC looks pretty clean.
I've sent them a Q in their chatbot regarding the resolution all the way through their WiFi board and out the SPDIF board. Waiting for an email response.
Edit: Response from "Tina"
"Hi,sorry, we can't reach that. output is 16bit/44kHz"
So, it's likely a limitation of the LinkPlay A31 module, possibly due to the I2S output.
16/44.1 is, of course, designed to cover the entire range of human hearing, so not really a limitation, so long as the device noise and distortion can be kept below that of the KEiiD. With Arylic's external DAC, and possibly with their TOSLink board, it does appear to be quite possible. I'd love to see measurements of the AudioEngine device, as well - I'm guessing they get it right.
DAC Board
Sample Rate up to: 24bit/192KHz
Dynamic Range: 112dB
Interchannel Isolation: 100dB
THD+N: 0dB FS 0.002%
SPDIF Out Board
Sample Rate is same as the connected board
So, their external DAC looks pretty clean.
I've sent them a Q in their chatbot regarding the resolution all the way through their WiFi board and out the SPDIF board. Waiting for an email response.
Edit: Response from "Tina"
"Hi,sorry, we can't reach that. output is 16bit/44kHz"
So, it's likely a limitation of the LinkPlay A31 module, possibly due to the I2S output.
16/44.1 is, of course, designed to cover the entire range of human hearing, so not really a limitation, so long as the device noise and distortion can be kept below that of the KEiiD. With Arylic's external DAC, and possibly with their TOSLink board, it does appear to be quite possible. I'd love to see measurements of the AudioEngine device, as well - I'm guessing they get it right.
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It really does look identical. Was wondering if anyone had tried to use either app to see if it recognized the other devices? I was thinking of trying one of the Acemax M5's, but it would be nice to combine the control for it with the Keiid MUZO app
Read about the Keiid review from Audioscience, and was wondering about semi-low cost alternatives.
I think I'm landing in the same place as you on this - not great, but there are other options that I think will similar (and often for more). I know it's not a perfect option, but I'm pretty happy with the KEiid I've tried.
chicks
Lunatic Member
Yes, the KEiiD measures right in there with a good number of well-known DACs, from the likes of Schiit, PS Audio, Micca, AudioQuest, etc, that folks swear by. That said, I'd still like to see the Audioengine unit measured, betting it will fall well into the middle range among DACs, as the output circuitry surrounding the Linkplay A31 board will definitely make a difference.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-dac-review.12119/#lg=attachment54920&slide=0
The KEiiD outperforms this $1800 Ayre DAC. Lol.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-and-measurements-of-ayre-codex-dac-amp.7282/
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Wow, that Ayre DAC is pretty crazy given the money difference. I like the KEiid's so far - they are convenient and there are plenty of other upgrades I can do to my system before their flaws might become really apparent (and my ears aren't golden either)
Was an interview I read a while ago about how correlated SINAD is to audio perception of sound quality as well and didn't think it was highly correlated (Geddes?). I haven't listened to enough variations to guess about whether or not that's true, though.
In any case, getting my second set of 103/4's back will have a bigger change to my basement system, I'm sure
chicks
Lunatic Member
Yet another device using the LinkPlay module/software. The Andover Songbird.
https://www.andoveraudio.com/products/songbird-hi-res-internet-audio-streaming-device
From their FAQ:
The optical output is 24bit/96kHz, and can be used with an external DAC.
If true, it matches the optical out of the CCA, and the 16/44 "limitation" isn't due to the LinkPlay module. No one appears to have measured it yet, so performance is an open question...
https://www.andoveraudio.com/products/songbird-hi-res-internet-audio-streaming-device
From their FAQ:
The optical output is 24bit/96kHz, and can be used with an external DAC.
If true, it matches the optical out of the CCA, and the 16/44 "limitation" isn't due to the LinkPlay module. No one appears to have measured it yet, so performance is an open question...
cpt_paranoia
Addicted Member
Ah. I'd seen Bill S mention it in a couple of threads recently, and I did wonder if it was an AirPlay unit.
Bill S
Thread Killer
I've had a chance to play with the Songbird a bit. Here are some comments you might find useful?
I have a Bluedento bluetooth receiver that's similar in performance to the AudioengineB1. I was using that to stream to my garage stereo rig which also runs deck speakers with a sub. My phone is a newer LG model I bought because they have one of the best DACs in them. I don't run a dedicated DAC at this time. If you're streaming BT though, you're not getting the same bitrate as you would with a wired connection. My sound with the BlueDento was still very good but obviously not as good as wired. I also had range issues as the BT receiver is in the garage and my deck line of sight is blocked a bit by the house and garage wall. I got fairly good reception if my phone was lying on the table but if I picked it up to surf, the connection would momentarily cut out at times depending on where I was sitting. Range was about 35 feet from phone to BT receiver through one wall. I bought the Songbird to hopefully remedy 2 things: higher stream rates and range.
For now, the Songbird is in the house in my main rig where I was streamimg right off my phone wired into the aux source of my Mac preamp. I run a Mac2505 in the house with Mac preamp, Polk LS50 mains and a Velodyne sub. Connection and pairing went OK. One glitch caused by me using a different USB plug vs the one furnished. Voltage was the same but amperage was different. I swapped and had no other problems. Make sure you're using the 2.4GHz port on your router! Once paired, it takes a little playing around to bring up your stream source (in my case Spotify Premium) in the Songbird app. I'm 35 feet from my router and signal is at 50%. I wouldn't go much further. Once you're streaming, your phone will work as the remote for as far as your wifi connection will let it. For me, that's 100 feet or more outside the house.
Sound quality is very good. I don't know what processor is in the DAC but I can't say there isn't much if any of an audible difference between the wifi stream through the Songbird and the wired connection using my phone's DAC. That is to say it has very good dynamic range, nice bass extension and clear but smooth highs. I have no way to A/B them so that's fairly subjective. Keep in mind Spotify Premium is not close to lossless but for the most part, it still sounds very good. I like the interface and algorithms they use - probably best of the lot.
Once it warms up outside, I'll move it to the garage. I'll need to either install a wifi extender or go with a wired ethernet connection to the garage into the songbird because its probably 60 feet from my router to my stereo out there. Songbird supports Tidal, Qobuz, I Heart radio and a couple others right now promising support for others coming in Q1 of 2021. They will push out updates through the app. The app itself doesn't have much. Volume up down and track changes using your phone. The unit itself isn't very substantial. They supply some velcro to keep it in place. It doesn't have the small but substantial feel of the Audioengine or BlueDento but it does what it advertises and seems to do it well. Yesterday I streamed Frank Sinatra Live at the Sands while sipping a bourbon and doom scrolling the news. From there I skipped to Don Fagan IGY and then some Indie new releases all without leaving my chair. So far so good!
cpt_paranoia
Addicted Member
Yeah. Good to keep these related observations in one tidy place, I reckon...
It's time to purchase another one of these linkplay devices for another room. So far I've been quite happy with the Arylic A50 and S50 that I have but there's one thing in the back of my mind. I don't have a ton of confidence that this company will be around for the long term to support these. I'm wondering if I should instead go with the audioengine b-fi? I know they've been around for a while and I'd guess if something were to go wrong their support would be better?
I already downloaded and tested the audioengine app and it's just a rebranded copy of 4stream, it sees my Arylic devices and can control them.
Should I also be considering the Songbird? I also just purchased a Schiit Modi 3+ for CD playing in my main system, I'm using coax input for that. Could I possibly use the Songbird in the main system and use optical out into the Schiit and switch between the 2 inputs? Not sure if that works on the Schiit or not.
I already downloaded and tested the audioengine app and it's just a rebranded copy of 4stream, it sees my Arylic devices and can control them.
Should I also be considering the Songbird? I also just purchased a Schiit Modi 3+ for CD playing in my main system, I'm using coax input for that. Could I possibly use the Songbird in the main system and use optical out into the Schiit and switch between the 2 inputs? Not sure if that works on the Schiit or not.
cpt_paranoia
Addicted Member
I'm not sure I'd classify Lemon Jelly as 'rawk'...
I ended up ordering an Andover Songbird. I figured I already had the Schiit, might as well make use of it. I grabbed a decent quality optical cable from amazon and am using that to connect it into the Modi 3+. I did a little A/B testing between the Arylic S50 Pro and the Songbird streaming some 320 kbps mp3s from my server.
At first I thought the Songbird/Schiit combo sounded really "thin" but after a bit more back and forth I think what I'm hearing is that the Arylic is not a very neutral sounding device, it's adding a lot of bass and the highs aren't as clear. I'm running this through a Pioneer SX-850. With the Arylic I had not been using the loudness function because it seemed overkill but it seems to make more sense to turn it back on with the Songbird/Schiit combo and now this sounds much better.
My only complaint initially with the songbird is that the power plugs into the front of the device. I guess I'll just have to hide this somewhere, maybe stick it to the back of something out of sight which shouldn't be that hard since it's quite small.
At first I thought the Songbird/Schiit combo sounded really "thin" but after a bit more back and forth I think what I'm hearing is that the Arylic is not a very neutral sounding device, it's adding a lot of bass and the highs aren't as clear. I'm running this through a Pioneer SX-850. With the Arylic I had not been using the loudness function because it seemed overkill but it seems to make more sense to turn it back on with the Songbird/Schiit combo and now this sounds much better.
My only complaint initially with the songbird is that the power plugs into the front of the device. I guess I'll just have to hide this somewhere, maybe stick it to the back of something out of sight which shouldn't be that hard since it's quite small.
Bill Ferris
Lunatic Member
, 
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Bill S
Thread Killer
Have you tried the Songbird straight up, without an external DAC? Wondering how the internal DAC sounds on its own.
Bill Ferris
Lunatic Member
I`m smiling at all that I`ve read about your difficulties with this outside source music internet based configuration glitches/limitations through this whole thread !
I will never experience these issues, while I enjoy, at minimum, the CD (Red Book) WAV. ripped music independent play back source here !!
Carry on with your internet based streaming wireless (WiFi based) home distribution discoveries folks that control your desired music at the internet providers whims, or future economic stability, while hoping for the stability future in this respect ..
Never mind me, I`m not computer system(s) schooled & trained individual watching so many struggles in this audio based digital music area here on A/K.
Carry on, no thread crapping intended.
Ciao
I will never experience these issues, while I enjoy, at minimum, the CD (Red Book) WAV. ripped music independent play back source here !!
Carry on with your internet based streaming wireless (WiFi based) home distribution discoveries folks that control your desired music at the internet providers whims, or future economic stability, while hoping for the stability future in this respect ..
Never mind me, I`m not computer system(s) schooled & trained individual watching so many struggles in this audio based digital music area here on A/K.
Carry on, no thread crapping intended.
Ciao