Yep. My Outlaw sub came with them, and I know I've seen them available separately as well.
Will adding Marble tops improve speaker performance?
- Thread starter hjames
- Start date
Yep. My Outlaw sub came with them, and I know I've seen them available separately as well.
nedseg
Well-Known Member
A couple thoughts, Heather:
- I tried using soft shelf liner under the glass tops for my L200s, and after time, they left little divot imprints from the shelf liner pattern on the walnut, so I'd avoid any cushioning material that has a 3d pattern to it. Or anything absorbent that'd wick oil from the veneer. I'm planning on using free floating plastic sheeting next.
Actually this stuff:
http://www.3-form.com/materials/varia_ecoresin/naturals/
It's not very slippery on the back, so won't move much, or easily....less so with stone on top of it!
- From Lansing Heritage, Greg Timbers (just happen to re-read this the other day)
" You will eat the bass kick immediately if any enclosure movement is allowed. The woofer kicks really hard and if any energy is consumed moving (rocking) the enclosure due to it not being properly coupled to the floor, you will lose bass kick and impact. The proper use and need for spikes (or equivalent) is not BS. It is based in sound theory and is easily demonstrable."
So I'd sure think that adding mass to a spiked load would make sense?
- I tried using soft shelf liner under the glass tops for my L200s, and after time, they left little divot imprints from the shelf liner pattern on the walnut, so I'd avoid any cushioning material that has a 3d pattern to it. Or anything absorbent that'd wick oil from the veneer. I'm planning on using free floating plastic sheeting next.
Actually this stuff:
http://www.3-form.com/materials/varia_ecoresin/naturals/
It's not very slippery on the back, so won't move much, or easily....less so with stone on top of it!
- From Lansing Heritage, Greg Timbers (just happen to re-read this the other day)
" You will eat the bass kick immediately if any enclosure movement is allowed. The woofer kicks really hard and if any energy is consumed moving (rocking) the enclosure due to it not being properly coupled to the floor, you will lose bass kick and impact. The proper use and need for spikes (or equivalent) is not BS. It is based in sound theory and is easily demonstrable."
So I'd sure think that adding mass to a spiked load would make sense?
Back from Dim Sum and a side trip to Home Despot ... Pack of 5 12 x 12 polished Granite "tiles" - $25, (I need 4, plus a spare I can use as a kitchen trivet!)
3 tubes of silicon adhesive for the caulking gun, and 2 16 x 16 tiles for the rear panels. ($3 for those tiles - not sure if I got the right thing ...)
Anyway, the concept is - glue 1 granite tile to the bottom of each cabinet,
glue 1 larger tile to the back panel, with a granite tile glued to the center of that.
The black granite has a bit of mica/metal flake in the stone - very nice!
I'd love to get larger pieces of that material for the 18x24 top slab pieces -
I can take the spare tile to the local stone cutters and see if they have anything like that.
3 tubes of silicon adhesive for the caulking gun, and 2 16 x 16 tiles for the rear panels. ($3 for those tiles - not sure if I got the right thing ...)
Anyway, the concept is - glue 1 granite tile to the bottom of each cabinet,
glue 1 larger tile to the back panel, with a granite tile glued to the center of that.
The black granite has a bit of mica/metal flake in the stone - very nice!
I'd love to get larger pieces of that material for the 18x24 top slab pieces -
I can take the spare tile to the local stone cutters and see if they have anything like that.
Mike Stehr
Poverty Audio
Yay...pavers...
I worked at a ceramic tile factory way back...Quality control banging 6X6 tiles together listening for the correct ring....tink! tink! tink!, tink! tink! Thunk! ....junk! Into the bin... Smash!
Ran kilns as well...or both I should say...
Keep in mind fired ceramic tiles have a ringing kind of sound/characteristic, but probably isn't going to matter glued to wood panels. Another thing is a ceramic tile will be more prone to cracking and breaking over a granite tile. And the large area of a 16"X16" paver makes the tile even more prone.
Are the pavers meant for some sort of bracing/shoring, or dampening?
Black! Blade!
I worked at a ceramic tile factory way back...Quality control banging 6X6 tiles together listening for the correct ring....tink! tink! tink!, tink! tink! Thunk! ....junk! Into the bin... Smash!
Ran kilns as well...or both I should say...
Keep in mind fired ceramic tiles have a ringing kind of sound/characteristic, but probably isn't going to matter glued to wood panels. Another thing is a ceramic tile will be more prone to cracking and breaking over a granite tile. And the large area of a 16"X16" paver makes the tile even more prone.
Are the pavers meant for some sort of bracing/shoring, or dampening?
Black! Blade!
My audio guru who has already done the same with HIS pair of Heath/Valencias recommended this, and his sound GREAT!
The tiles/granite get a full spread of silicon adhesive to adhere them to the cabinet backs and bottom -
His term is constrained layers on the backs and under the cabinet.
I did not see any Marble/granite tiles at Home Despot larger than 12 x 12 -
I wrote my guru asking for further enlightenment on his config ...
he confirmed that ceramic tiles are correct for the direct-to-wood layer.
The tiles/granite get a full spread of silicon adhesive to adhere them to the cabinet backs and bottom -
His term is constrained layers on the backs and under the cabinet.
I did not see any Marble/granite tiles at Home Despot larger than 12 x 12 -
I wrote my guru asking for further enlightenment on his config ...
he confirmed that ceramic tiles are correct for the direct-to-wood layer.
darkblue94
The Devil made me do it.
Heather, make sure the top piece is a minimum of 3/4" thick (more is even better) remembering that mass is the key here.
Mike Stehr
Poverty Audio
Okay, it's a dampening/mass thing...
Exactly - the recommended Crate and Barrel cutting boards are just way too thin -Heather, make sure the top piece is a minimum of 3/4" thick (more is even better) remembering that mass is the key here.
I was planning an inch thick or more ...
so top slabs in an 18 x 24 x 1 inch size - VERY HEAVY!
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Well, a different kind of floor tile usage! Damned acetic acid smell as the RTV cures, yuck!
Marked the potential area with pencil, used a caulk gun and nearly a tubeful to fully cover the working area. Its thicker than it looks!
Took a spoon and spread the silicon smooth, laid the tile on top and pushed thoroughly into the goo,
rocked it back and forth a bit, and side to side to fully bond the tile to the bottom.
Then laid out some bottles full of lead shot left over from a Vandersteen/Anchor stand that went to Japan.
Do Not Disturb until after work Monday ... when I run a nice bead around the edge of the tile, and then dupe this work on the other cabinet bottom!
Marked the potential area with pencil, used a caulk gun and nearly a tubeful to fully cover the working area. Its thicker than it looks!
Took a spoon and spread the silicon smooth, laid the tile on top and pushed thoroughly into the goo,
rocked it back and forth a bit, and side to side to fully bond the tile to the bottom.
Then laid out some bottles full of lead shot left over from a Vandersteen/Anchor stand that went to Japan.
Do Not Disturb until after work Monday ... when I run a nice bead around the edge of the tile, and then dupe this work on the other cabinet bottom!
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darkblue94
The Devil made me do it.
Perfect, they'll look real good too.
Blue Shadow
Waiting for Vintage Gear from this century
The correct removable padding to use on top of the speakers is herbies grungebusters. Available in different thickness and diameter circles they don't mar, don't slip and bust grunge in the sound. I use a few small dots under my Crown Phono Modules with excellent results.
https://herbiesaudiolab.net/gb.htm
https://herbiesaudiolab.net/gb.htm
Okay - about 6PM yesterday I laid down a thick coating of clear silicon to glue the black granite tiles to the tan ceramic tiles already in place -
everything is still weighted down with the bottles of lead shot and will be undisturbed until mid afternoon or so after church and lunch.
They can certainly stay upside-down until tomorrow or later.
I'll probably wait until after work Monday to do the final sealing bead around the edges of the tiles ... just for the extended dry-time.
I probably won't turn the speakers on their face to start the back panel gluing until Tuesday after work -
but 2 layers of mass with constraint layers in between ought to damp the bottoms sufficiently.
This stuff is all new to me but seems like good work for speakers to keep!
everything is still weighted down with the bottles of lead shot and will be undisturbed until mid afternoon or so after church and lunch.
They can certainly stay upside-down until tomorrow or later.
I'll probably wait until after work Monday to do the final sealing bead around the edges of the tiles ... just for the extended dry-time.
I probably won't turn the speakers on their face to start the back panel gluing until Tuesday after work -
but 2 layers of mass with constraint layers in between ought to damp the bottoms sufficiently.
This stuff is all new to me but seems like good work for speakers to keep!
Blue Shadow
Waiting for Vintage Gear from this century
Is there some vibration of the cabinet walls that is interfering with the sound or are you just wanting to more firmly attach them to the floor with the weights?
There are products to use internally and increased bracing is recommended for some speakers that I have read about such as the ADS L1590 with their long side panels.
All sorts of things to think about when trying to improve the original cabinets.
There are products to use internally and increased bracing is recommended for some speakers that I have read about such as the ADS L1590 with their long side panels.
All sorts of things to think about when trying to improve the original cabinets.
Well - the top stones will be damped by a large piece of cut to size, cut to fit drawer liner ...
https://www.amazon.com/EPPCO-Enterprises.../dp/B000VHXEJ6
at $12 a roll, easily installed or removed, and larger than needed, its worth trying once!
and - it arrived this morning while we were at church! Thats ready to go!
Now I'll need to go find a source for the 18 x 24 x 1 inch or so Granite slabs!
These techniques I am sharing are proven with a friend of mine's pair of Heath AS-101s a bit north of here. He did improvements like this to the physical structure of his pair, and will also be sharing crossover updates, horn treatments, and additional treatments to the woofer and horn driver that resulted in a system that knocked my socks off when I heard it in January.
So, I found a pair of Heath AS-101s shortly afterwards, won the eBay sale and had them U-shipped here, and listened to the base systems for the last month. I added a large amount of polyfill into the cabinets (not my guru's idea) and that lowered the low frequency capability of the system. I know that, based on music I knew well through other speakers, where it rolled off on the original config of the Heaths, and the lower notes I could hear in the music afterwards. He has other approaches using a multitude of products like lambswool and such to get lower bass from the system. As well as woofer cone treatments.
Obviously, with the speakers upside and on their sides as I glue the ceramic and granite tiles to the cabinets this week, I won't be listening to them again until maybe next weekend. But these are techniques my friend did with his heaths, so I would presume if I copy his techniques on my Heaths, his sucesses would carry over to my speakers.
He did remind me of the bottom line of all this today:
"Just keep in mind that when the smoke clears on your speaker project, although the speakers will be much improved, they will not provide a "band-aid" for the rest of your system. At the same time -- they will step out of the way. As you adjust, change, or upgrade your various components ahead of the speakers, you will not be "lied to" or misdirected.
That includes everything -- Vinyl, digital, pre-amp, power amp, line level interconnects, speaker cables, type of music, 3-fingers of Scotch, etc."
Darned if thats not wise words on a project!
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Quick test today - while they were upside down. tops flat to the floor, I connected the Fostex horns to the leads for the Altec horns, and played some varied stuff - from Jaco through Elton John, some Led Zep III, and a bit of Manifesto, with the Great Paul Thompson (aka Roxy Music's Drummer).
Could be anecdotal, what do I know, but - it does seem to hit harder and I have not done the rear panel treatment yet, much less add the big slabs on top.
Tho, with the wheels airborne, the speakers are tight to the carpet and the floor.
Anyway, got to head out to the Lunasa concert shortly!
Could be anecdotal, what do I know, but - it does seem to hit harder and I have not done the rear panel treatment yet, much less add the big slabs on top.
Tho, with the wheels airborne, the speakers are tight to the carpet and the floor.
Anyway, got to head out to the Lunasa concert shortly!
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And after shopping for a rental Tux with tails, I came home, changed, layed out the speakers face down,
did my large measurements, glued down the Tan ceramic tiles,
did my small measurements, and glued down the black Granite tiles.
Now, give them 2 days to dry, then silicon edge around the edges, and done.
did my large measurements, glued down the Tan ceramic tiles,
did my small measurements, and glued down the black Granite tiles.
Now, give them 2 days to dry, then silicon edge around the edges, and done.
