Wood Glue as Vinyl Cleaner
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spideyjack
Addicted Member
interesting, i will have to pull out some of my oldest 45s and see if they look different.
Well, after wading through the whole thread and reading what people said, I had to try this ...
So off I went to B&Q's website and carefully examined the range of glues available.
I plumped for this one: Decorator's PVA. Checking the Material Safety Data Sheet confirmed it was nothing other than a mix of polyvinyl acetate and polyvinyl alcohol.
(What can other UK users recommend from experience...?)
The test vinyl chosen first was a very old, scratched and beaten up copy of Patti Smith's 'Horses'... if I made it worse, it was already pretty badly nicked and scratched ... if I made it better, it was a bonus
Made a complete mess of first coat of first side, including getting some on the label. But remember! it's water soluble ... so a wet bit of kitchen towel solved that. Left it to dry for a while, flipped over, did second side (did a better job that time ... putting a chamfered edge on your spreader helps a lot...!). Went shopping and came back. First side still wasn't dry (I did say I'd made a mess didn't I? Bits of it were far too thick...). Eventually it dried and I peeled it off.
The difference? Well it made a fair difference, but didn't do anything about the scratches of course. The whole record does sound a lot nicer and clearer though ... especially the quiet bits of 'Horses'.
It wasn't a good test candidate like I said, so I'm doing a rerun now with a 'clean' unscratched record ... side 1 of The Orb's Live 93. Several attempts at washing have all failed to get this cleaned completely, so we'll see what happens ...
Incidentally the B&Q glue peels off quite nicely and doesn't seem to leave much static charge, unlike some have reported.
So off I went to B&Q's website and carefully examined the range of glues available.
I plumped for this one: Decorator's PVA. Checking the Material Safety Data Sheet confirmed it was nothing other than a mix of polyvinyl acetate and polyvinyl alcohol.
(What can other UK users recommend from experience...?)
The test vinyl chosen first was a very old, scratched and beaten up copy of Patti Smith's 'Horses'... if I made it worse, it was already pretty badly nicked and scratched ... if I made it better, it was a bonus
Made a complete mess of first coat of first side, including getting some on the label. But remember! it's water soluble ... so a wet bit of kitchen towel solved that. Left it to dry for a while, flipped over, did second side (did a better job that time ... putting a chamfered edge on your spreader helps a lot...!). Went shopping and came back. First side still wasn't dry (I did say I'd made a mess didn't I? Bits of it were far too thick...). Eventually it dried and I peeled it off.
The difference? Well it made a fair difference, but didn't do anything about the scratches of course. The whole record does sound a lot nicer and clearer though ... especially the quiet bits of 'Horses'.
It wasn't a good test candidate like I said, so I'm doing a rerun now with a 'clean' unscratched record ... side 1 of The Orb's Live 93. Several attempts at washing have all failed to get this cleaned completely, so we'll see what happens ...
Incidentally the B&Q glue peels off quite nicely and doesn't seem to leave much static charge, unlike some have reported.
Velouria, don't you have any Donnie Osmond LPs there? These seem to be the "sacrifice of choice" here. I don't remember what my first LP was but since then I have glued 70s MOFI LPs and original old cherished Blues Project LPs.
If there is ever anything that cures scratches it will be a miracle. I expect that some of the diminished pops I heard were vinyl that was permanently deformed from whatever sat in the groove for decades.
I still can not bring myself to glue an LP that is covered with dust. I have to dust it first. I think, self delusion[?], that the glue cleans better if there is not a complete layer of dust on it.
The static problem seems to be tied to the temperature and humidity. Hopefully you are where that won't ever cause a problem.
If there is ever anything that cures scratches it will be a miracle. I expect that some of the diminished pops I heard were vinyl that was permanently deformed from whatever sat in the groove for decades.
I still can not bring myself to glue an LP that is covered with dust. I have to dust it first. I think, self delusion[?], that the glue cleans better if there is not a complete layer of dust on it.
The static problem seems to be tied to the temperature and humidity. Hopefully you are where that won't ever cause a problem.
lol, Donnie Osmond ... 
I suppose I could have used my Musical Youth LP ...
[Any Brits on here will, possibly, remember them. Oh, WHY did I ever want that record? Mind you I was only nine years old ...]
Another 4 records sitting now, glued up and waiting for side 1 to cure ... I will be busy tomorrow morning doing side 2 before going to work. I'm using an old belt driven turntable (a Toshiba SR-B2) to do the application but 33rpm is a bit fast. I could machine down the motor spindle with a file to get it to run slower (The record player is junk already... wrong size belt, will probably never ever run correctly again and has a hacked up headshell with a replacement Shure cartridge stuffed it it that had its tracking set very approximately ... Garbage
)
edit to add: I am still, at the moment, experimenting to see what I judge works best. The next few, I may wash first and apply the glue both while the record is still wet and after letting it dry; some report better success that way. Might end up redoing some of this current batch if there's no great improvement...
I suppose I could have used my Musical Youth LP ...
[Any Brits on here will, possibly, remember them. Oh, WHY did I ever want that record? Mind you I was only nine years old ...]
Another 4 records sitting now, glued up and waiting for side 1 to cure ... I will be busy tomorrow morning doing side 2 before going to work. I'm using an old belt driven turntable (a Toshiba SR-B2) to do the application but 33rpm is a bit fast. I could machine down the motor spindle with a file to get it to run slower (The record player is junk already... wrong size belt, will probably never ever run correctly again and has a hacked up headshell with a replacement Shure cartridge stuffed it it that had its tracking set very approximately ... Garbage
)edit to add: I am still, at the moment, experimenting to see what I judge works best. The next few, I may wash first and apply the glue both while the record is still wet and after letting it dry; some report better success that way. Might end up redoing some of this current batch if there's no great improvement...
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Yup ... I read this entire thread before registering, so I saw it
The problem I have - may be I've not got the hang of doing the spiral correctly ... may be the viscosity of the glue - is getting small air bubbles sometimes. This is probably more down to technique than the glue, I guess...!Don't seem to have had any air bubble problems with the last 2 or 3 I've coated so maybe it's just technique and practice ...
I think he was turning the platter from the edge using two fingers, kind of walking it around slowly. Or maybe that was the other video.
JonL
Lunatic Member
I think it was PM's video showing the glue being applied to a spinning disc, and then being smoothed out with a spreader at the same speed. It inspired me to do it that way, I'd always been nervous about putting the glue on using a good table (I have no real beaters here). I tried it (on my Thorens!) and it worked extremely well.
CT-Boy
Active Member
Wood glue? Why not!
Feeling a little bit experimental over the weekend, I bought a small can of wood glue and test it on a 'test' vinyl.. Looks promising! :thmbsp:
What I found is that:
1. you must let the glue to be completely DRY. If not you'd left some 'stains' of the glue but fortunately it can be removed by water.
2. the glue must be 'water based'.. otherwise you'll do permanent damage to your vinyl! BTW, are all wood glue water based?
Will try out on less favourite vinyl and see (hear) if there is/are any sonic improvements.. Will update.
Cheers!
Feeling a little bit experimental over the weekend, I bought a small can of wood glue and test it on a 'test' vinyl.. Looks promising! :thmbsp:
What I found is that:
1. you must let the glue to be completely DRY. If not you'd left some 'stains' of the glue but fortunately it can be removed by water.
2. the glue must be 'water based'.. otherwise you'll do permanent damage to your vinyl! BTW, are all wood glue water based?
Will try out on less favourite vinyl and see (hear) if there is/are any sonic improvements.. Will update.
Cheers!
electrode101
Active Member
re: 45 material composition.
45's are made with either vinyl or a styrene composition. The easiest way to tell is by looking at the edge of the record.
45's made with vinyl have a tapered edge.
45's made with sytrene have a square or blunt edge (known in the trade as a "box cut").
45's made with styrene are notorious for wearing out after a few plays, especially if played with a heavy tracking force, or oddly enough, with a Line Contact or other thin side profile stylus. These type of 45's are best played with a conical stylus or elliptical with a 0.4 X 0.7 through 0.2 through 0.7mil profile.
jD
45's are made with either vinyl or a styrene composition. The easiest way to tell is by looking at the edge of the record.
45's made with vinyl have a tapered edge.
45's made with sytrene have a square or blunt edge (known in the trade as a "box cut").
45's made with styrene are notorious for wearing out after a few plays, especially if played with a heavy tracking force, or oddly enough, with a Line Contact or other thin side profile stylus. These type of 45's are best played with a conical stylus or elliptical with a 0.4 X 0.7 through 0.2 through 0.7mil profile.
jD
LPMike
Vinyllicus Diversicus
Ive got quite a number of the old box-cut styrene 45's actually! (and yes they are pretty worn out!
Well all I can say is wow
A problematic record 1 of The Orb's Live 93 cleaned up to sounding almost-new.
Just listening to a 1962 George Formby record which I picked up for £1. My oldest record... It sounds ... well it doesn't sound new, especially since it was probably mostly dubbed off of existing 78s, but it's now listenable
One thing I've found is that peeling slowly from outside in, rather than loosening and then pulling along the groove circularly, seems to produce better results. Has anyone else found that?
I don't use tape to lift it, I just loosen up the glue sheet at the edge using my nails, then peel it off. Works a treat
edit to add: Once you get the hang of it, and use a spreader with a thin chamfered edge (that makes a HUGE difference to spreading it easily!) ... well I've only done about 5 records so far, but using my junk turntable can now coat a side in about a minute
A problematic record 1 of The Orb's Live 93 cleaned up to sounding almost-new.
Just listening to a 1962 George Formby record which I picked up for £1. My oldest record... It sounds ... well it doesn't sound new, especially since it was probably mostly dubbed off of existing 78s, but it's now listenable
One thing I've found is that peeling slowly from outside in, rather than loosening and then pulling along the groove circularly, seems to produce better results. Has anyone else found that?
I don't use tape to lift it, I just loosen up the glue sheet at the edge using my nails, then peel it off. Works a treat
edit to add: Once you get the hang of it, and use a spreader with a thin chamfered edge (that makes a HUGE difference to spreading it easily!) ... well I've only done about 5 records so far, but using my junk turntable can now coat a side in about a minute
CT-Boy
Active Member
Velouria,
I concur! :yes:
I used an old LP that was not touched,cleaned and played for at least 10 years, full of grime and whatnots.. pretty good candidate to test this out..
Did a quick cleaning under a running tap and while the vinyl is still 'damp' applied the wood glue on a spinning TT at 33rpm. The wood glue came with a soft plastic applicator/spreader and that helps in spreading the 'good stuff' evenly on the vinyl... Did that last night and I let it dry under the fan..
Woke up this morning, found it nice and dry... peeled the dried wood glue and heavens! The vinyl shines like it's brand new!
Gave it a spin and it sounded heavenly.. just like a new vinyl with little or no surface noises!
As you pointed out, I do agree with the following tips as I did the same:
".. peeling slowly from outside in, rather than loosening and then pulling along the groove circularly, seems to produce better results."
Agreed!
"I don't use tape to lift it, I just loosen up the glue sheet at the edge using my nails, then peel it off. Works a treat"
It does indeed!
Will try this out with more vinyls.. pixs to follow..
Keep spinning folks!
I concur! :yes:
I used an old LP that was not touched,cleaned and played for at least 10 years, full of grime and whatnots.. pretty good candidate to test this out..
Did a quick cleaning under a running tap and while the vinyl is still 'damp' applied the wood glue on a spinning TT at 33rpm. The wood glue came with a soft plastic applicator/spreader and that helps in spreading the 'good stuff' evenly on the vinyl...
Did that last night and I let it dry under the fan.. Woke up this morning, found it nice and dry... peeled the dried wood glue and heavens! The vinyl shines like it's brand new!
Gave it a spin and it sounded heavenly.. just like a new vinyl with little or no surface noises!
As you pointed out, I do agree with the following tips as I did the same:
".. peeling slowly from outside in, rather than loosening and then pulling along the groove circularly, seems to produce better results."
Agreed!
"I don't use tape to lift it, I just loosen up the glue sheet at the edge using my nails, then peel it off. Works a treat"
It does indeed!
Will try this out with more vinyls.. pixs to follow..
Keep spinning folks!
Interesting thought...
Isn't a stereo groove a V formed by two cutting heads at a 90 degree angle to each other?
Therefore, wouldn't optimum results be achieved by gluing twice, once pulling the film off from edge to middle, and the second time from middle to edge? Hmm ...
Isn't a stereo groove a V formed by two cutting heads at a 90 degree angle to each other?
Therefore, wouldn't optimum results be achieved by gluing twice, once pulling the film off from edge to middle, and the second time from middle to edge? Hmm ...
JonL
Lunatic Member
I think the glue does its thing while it's drying. I think it grabs the dirt and the direction of the pull shouldn't matter. I do notice that it is much more difficult to pull across the grooves than with, but I think that just means that angle isn't favorable to shear the bond with the vinyl, whereas I *think* the dirt is stuck into the glue and will come up no matter what. All that said, I've never compared the two directions with an ear towards performance.
Gary Indiana
Active Member
I've found a couple of Youtube videos on cleaning LPs with glue.
This one is short (1:24 min.) and only shows application of the glue.
And this one is a little longer (4:34 min.) with a comment.
This one is short (1:24 min.) and only shows application of the glue.
And this one is a little longer (4:34 min.) with a comment.
LPMike
Vinyllicus Diversicus
Bahhh! Amateurs!
I like my video and technique better (try it!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hq8jkEx7aiA
I like my video and technique better (try it!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hq8jkEx7aiA