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Worried about my Audiophile status - full range speaker love

mhardy6647 said:
There is probably no best; the 755 family was/is a darned good one, but they're (all) also almost outrageously expensive these days.
speaking of the 755(A) -- this is a fun read (IMO) :)
https://www.stereophile.com/content/listening-116

There are many, many, many good choices -- new or vintage, and much has been written here at AK and elsewhere on the topic.

The Lafayette SK-98/Pioneer PIM-8(L) (or PIM-20A) 'biflex' style cone driver is a nice one that isn't exactly below the radar but also isn't terrifyingly expensive, if vintage drivers are of interest.

Pioneer LRE biflexes by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
(Blue-basket speaker on the left is an LRE SK-98 -- same basic driver as the PIM-8)

http://rutcho.com/speaker_drivers/pioneer_pim8l/pioneer_pim8l.html
https://audio-heritage.jp/PIONEER-EXCLUSIVE/unit/pim-20a.html

Another personal fave is the Radio Shack 40-1354 5-1/4" twincone driver; these aren't too hard to find and aren't too expensive, either.
View attachment 1317103
source: www.radioshackcatalogs.com (1991) -- first appearance in 1983 :)

DSCN5289 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

I also like the Fostex FE-207E -- essentially the same as the FE206-E, but shielded and with slightly higher Qts, making it a little easier to get bass from (and, to my ears, a bit better balanced-sounding than the 206, albeit still kind of lean sounding).

DSC_5663 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
FE207E by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
(cat added to indicate scale :confused:)
... but there are many, many, many more... oh, I said that already ;)
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I have a terrible itch to build another set of speakers and have been kicking around the idea of a set of BK-20's that use the FE206's. Other than a few reviews on Madisound's site I haven't found much on them. I was hoping the low end would be extended with the BK-20 cabinet without needing to ad a sub. I'm trying to find a decent kit around $1000 for my 300B SET amp.
 
Depending on the type of music full range single drivers can be very satisfying. I had only experimented with new full range drivers until discovering the Zenith 49CZ802 ( circa 1957 ). The 802's sound very good on their own but with treble and bass augmentation they are down right amazing.

P1010010.jpg
 
Poultrygeist said:
Depending on the type of music full range single drivers can be very satisfying. I had only experimented with new full range drivers until discovering the Zenith 49CZ802 ( circa 1957 ). The 802's sound very good on their own but with treble and bass augmentation they are down right amazing.

View attachment 1319149
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My problem is space. I need to have two sets of speakers in the space where a pair of Warfedale W-90's now sit. Not a problem for my tube PP amp. But I want something for my 300B 5hat fits about the same space as a typical monkey coffin and still be able to get some low end out of 6wpc.
 
I just received a pair of Fostex FE126EN full-rangers from Madisound. Haven't even opened the box yet, just stuck them in a closet Haven't decided on a build, yet, but have a buddy who will cut the pieces and trial assemble them sometime in the next couple months. I'll then assemble and finish. Probably just stick with the small ported bookshelf plans instead of trying the back-loaded horn scheme, due to space.
 
gmfgmfgmf1 said:
Worried about my Audiophile status - full range speaker love
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I've been a full range fancier for over forty years. My preference is for the dipolar electrostatic flavor. :)

system.jpg
 
While not as econo as some of the RS drivers mentioned, the Electro-Voice SP12B's are very affordable and enjoyable. Here is one of mine in a corner horn Aristocrat cab. I did find a match for my single T35B tweeter, but was satisfied with them prior to their addition.
20180908_185332-1.jpg
 
Anyone ever toy with Motorola 8" "Golden Voice" drivers?

I only have one, but had two...I recall the Fs was up around 90Hz. I think I pulled them from a console stereo, they had whizzer cones, and sounded pretty good in a pair of 1 cubic foot bookshelf speakers with no back panels. They kinda got ragged sounding when cranked a bit, but as long as one didn't do that they were fine.
Some foam, or some Dammar resin could alleviate that...

The other one was installed in a homebrew guitar amp, a champ abortion with a 6005 output tube...that thing had a creamy scream...
 
Lavane said:
They seem to be out of flat packs :(
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The plans are free and the Frugals are not difficult to DIY. If not any cabinet shop can cut the flat packs. Some full range single driver speakers require a baffle step correction circuit but the Frugals like most BL horns don't. The speaker is wired directly to the terminals. They look large in this photo but take up less space than many stand mounted bookshelf speakers. The baffle measures 7"x 35".

P3040012.jpg
 
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onwardjames said:
I find this thread simply fascinating.
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I was first exposed to full range electrostats as a teenager and was immediately seduced by their coherency and in the case of hearing Dayton-Wright’s, their transparency.

I confess that I don’t understand those who choose to turn them into multi-ways with decidedly variable directivity which defeats the underlying objective.
 
If I didn't want to build enclosures for a Fostex full range single driver I'd buy a pair of the nice boxes on eBay from Moldova. Even with shipping they're affordable. The Fostex drivers are around $100 for two. They'd sound as good as the high dollar Blumensteins linked below.

https://www.blumensteinaudio.com
 
bobins08 said:
Me too. Maybe someday I’ll build a set of cabs for a nice full range speaker?

I wonder what people hear, or don’t hear, without a crossover present. ???
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All you have to do is listen to a good crossover-less speaker and you'll be hooked. A passive crossover literally sucks the life out of the music.

I use active crossovers with multi-driver speakers but only on the woofers. But I run the full range drivers full range, straight off the amp with nothing in their signal path.
 
bobins08 said:
I wonder what people hear, or don’t hear, without a crossover present. ???
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Its not just the lack of a crossover. When you hear live sounds of all manner, the directivity or width of radiation for every frequency is consistent. A piano sounds like a piano. A voice sounds like a voice.

Breaking up the spectrum into separate pieces poses a definite challenge. Many modern speakers blend drivers very well using them in the proper range as determined by piston size and length of wavelength. When that doesn't occur, you get the aural equivalent of a fun house mirror distorting the apparent width of instruments selectively by frequency.

One poor example comes to mind: 70s era JBL bookshelves where the woofer and midrange are run far beyond their optimum ranges. Current models like the LSR6332 don't make those fundamental mistakes. Most folks accept that with full range dynamic drivers, directivity narrows as you climb in frequency, especially with the larger models. Such is not overtly noticeable because there is a gradual roll off.

Perhaps the worst case is using a large 12" full range driver and putting a tweeter on top of it. Supplementing the bottom doesn't pose the same challenge since the wavelengths are measured in feet. The directivity of a 12" driver rapidly collapses beyond about 1.4 kHz or so. Mating a tweeter an octave or two above that operating in its sweet spot with wide dispersion creates a vast contrast and wholly unnatural sounding results.

Its all about continuity. I enjoy using a single nearly massless driver to cover nearly ten octaves with consistent directivity.
 
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E-Stat said:
Its not just the lack of a crossover. When you hear live sounds of all manner, the directivity or width of radiation for every frequency is consistent. A piano sounds like a piano. A voice sounds like a voice.

Breaking up the spectrum into separate pieces poses a definite challenge. Many modern speakers blend drivers very well using them in the proper range as determined by piston size and length of wavelength. When that doesn't occur, you get the aural equivalent of a fun house mirror distorting the apparent width of instruments selectively by frequency.

One poor example comes to mind: 70s era JBL bookshelves where the woofer and midrange are run far beyond their optimum ranges. Current models like the LSR6332 don't make those fundamental mistakes. Most folks accept that with full range dynamic drivers, directivity narrows as you climb in frequency, especially with the larger models. Such is not overtly noticeable because there is a gradual roll off.

Perhaps the worst case is using a large 12" full range driver and putting a tweeter on top of it. Supplementing the bottom doesn't pose the same challenge since the wavelengths are measured in feet. The directivity of a 12" driver rapidly collapses beyond about 1.4 kHz or so. Mating a tweeter an octave or two above that operating in its sweet spot with wide dispersion creates a vast contrast and wholly unnatural sounding results.

Its all about continuity. I enjoy using a single nearly massless driver to cover nearly ten octaves with consistent directivity.
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Very interesting information. Thank you for sharing it with me. I’ll have to don some self study to understand it fully.

I recall as a young teenager I went to a friends house whose father had a nice stereo. He had one speaker inside some nice homemade plywood cabinets. I liked the sound he was getting. I asked him about the speakers and no tweeters and midrange and he chuckled and just said he didn’t think he needed them. I’ll bet he had a nice full range speaker. He also had a Pilot receiver and a reel to reel tape playing classical music.
 
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