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Worried about my Audiophile status - full range speaker love

Prior to the EV's, my only other experience with full range drivers were in Altec Santanas. They had the 15" 420A Biflex driver with a single cap to a phenolic tweeter @ 3500. Even though 420A Altec spec sheet showed 25 - 14K, I found them to need serious help in the upper frequencies. I replaced the blown phenolics with a small horn and enjoyed them for a couple of years.

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The Stephens Trusonics, with their metal dust caps, look intriguing.
 
macgolf said:
Prior to the EV's, my only other experience with full range drivers were in Altec Santanas. They had the 15" 420A Biflex driver with a single cap to a phenolic tweeter @ 3500.
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The twelve inch driver craps out at about 1.2 kHz in terms of directivity. Placing a tweeter an octave and a half above that will most certainly compromise coherency.

You've got a huge friggin gap in the middle. That is most certainly audible.
 
I love my full rangers for near field monitoring.

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Fostex FF105WK 4" drivers in P1000-E enclosures. Inbuilt zobel networks, cabinets damped with Accousta-Stuf, and mounted on heavy duty monitor arms so they float above my desk, dustcaps at ear level. Paired with a 10" subwoofer under my desk for low end duty.

I like the fact they aren't hugely power hungry either, so they are happy being driven from my 4W per channel tube amp, or from any of my solid state amps. Currently being driven by an early 1980s Sansui AU-D33.

They image amazingly well and really shine with vocals... I close my eyes and they just disappear.
 
I tried the full range route, still have some Audio Nirvana 8" models, but no audiophile can ever really ignore the importance of bass, and even hearing 15" full range drivers, there's nothing much below 40hz, and very little authority.
 
Hobie1dog said:
I tried the full range route, still have some Audio Nirvana 8" models, but no audiophile can ever really ignore the importance of bass, and even hearing 15" full range drivers, there's nothing much below 40hz, and very little authority.
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I find that thirty two square feet of radiating area does quite well at achieving virtually flat in room response to just below 30 hz.

You just need a bigger driver. :)
 
the skipper said:
This is exactly why I rile at the term "audiophile .
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You and me both. I shun that term like a vampire does sunlight. It has nothing but snobby associations and so much snake oil based myth that it makes my skin burn. :)
 
My feeling is that the lack of phase/time issues that crossovers cause, and the more coherent polar pattern produced by single drivers is a large part of why full range speakers sound so good. But I also think some of it is psychological - if you know you are listening to one, you sort of expect a rolled off high and low end, and so you don't miss it. That said, in something like a TQWP or horn, the bass can be pretty good, even from a small driver that produces pretty good high frequencies.
I remember that when Vilchur and Kloss were looking for a tweeter for the AR 1, they found the Western Electric 8 inch full range to have a better high end than the JBL and Bozak offerings.
At least some electrostatics (and planar magnetics) are not single driver speakers, but have a tweeter panel and bass panels, so that there is reasonable dispersion of high frequencies. Some electrostatics are curved to aid dispersion, but I don't know if that is sufficient enough that they dispense with the tweeter panel. The Quad 57 used a tweeter panel, but the 63 used a combination of concentric panels and time delay to mimic a pulsating hemisphere.
 
Nat said:
Some electrostatics are curved to aid dispersion, but I don't know if that is sufficient enough that they dispense with the tweeter panel.
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The Sound Lab approach is a single diaphragm design using flat facets that are angled either 22, 45 or 90 degrees based upon the model. The 22s are pretty much for large arrays like Ray Kimber brought to RMAF to demo his multi-channel recordings. Their consistent directivity allows for either horizontal or vertical arrays. My U-1s are the 90 flavor. The "head-in-a-vise" effect is eliminated and sound quality changes little as you walk around the room like I did for one of Glenn's "speaker video" posts.

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I am a full range devotee. They just work wonderfully according to my ears. Can't explain why, they just do!

I recommend Wild Burro Betsy in open baffle configuarions. No multinational corporate off-shore shenanigans, just two two audio buffs supplying US made and time proven designs at affordable prices.
 
Listening to Technics sb-40 on my desk now.
12cm driver, metal dustcap, 12 cm passive radiator
Sort of a 'mechanical' three-way system. (And very beautiful cabinets by Technics).
 
Voxativ full-rangers had a beautiful sound at RMAF 2016.



No need to worry about your audiophile status with these, just your pocketbook...



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Worlds biggest Wide Band speaker Fan-atic here,
Just ordered a pair
AC1A's, around 2G's,
When you consider traditional, /xover types selling new/used, 2,3,4,10X's!!!!! , well heck the biggest Wilson's are @ $360,000,.,so honestly the Voxativ single wide band are on the budget side of the equation.


There are only 2 wide bands that are of interest to med, AER (2x's the price of Vox) and Voxativ.

Wide band/high sens will take front/center in all audio news over the next 20 years.
AS speakers are the crown jewel of our systems, and Wide Band are far superior to xover types due to higher sensitivity
Later
 
These are Martin King designed MLTL speakers with Lowther DX3 drivers. The plans are available at his quarter wave website. The BSC circuit I placed in boxes on top so they're easily tweaked. Full range single drivers often come with warts but usually work well in back loaded horns without correction. In other type enclosures they often require BSC.

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Audiophile definition is - a person who is enthusiastic about high-fidelity sound reproduction.

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I like this, Just left *the other audiophile form*,
Not much discussion going on about
true ~~new high tech ~~high sens ~~high fidelity ~~wide band speakers.
So left there to come over here, Looks like we have activity and seekers in high fidelity on this forum.
That old term coined by Philips back in their 1970;'s speakers The 375 and 475, Had the logo High Fidelity attacked to top of speaker.
This still is the key we are all seeking,
Some have no interest to look further.
IMHO, based on some 30+ yrs experience, The Xover designs from say 1khz-15khz, will lose everytime ina shootout with a high tech wide band.

These new drivers will become Front and Center news over the comming years.
Sensitivity is everything in high fidelity sound reproduction.
 
New
There is no such thing as a perfect speaker. PERIOD.

All are compromises.

I have used single full range drivers - for vocals nice, the rest not so much.


Perfect speaker??
Never interest me, now,
But surely xover/traditional low sens are far from perfect.
What I am saying for hz's 1k-12k, **Full* range/wide band, is The ONLY choice for my musical genre, Classical.
Sure I've only heard 4 china cheapos, but it was enough experimention to figure out xover /low sensitivity designs sound like wet blanket's been thrown over the tweeter.
No thanks. Wide Band is the speaker for the 21s Century, May take 20 yrs for folks to figure this out, And so be it.
One can deny this movement towards wide band is actually taking place, but its there, You just don't see it.
I see it. Slowly but surely.
Its all about EDU, and smashing propaganda smack down.
 
I enjoy full range drivers - they do have that point source magic - and vocals are stellar. As I said, I have had 3 different pairs.


It was only after testing 4 different cheap chinese wide bands, against the world class top tweeter the seas Millennium on one channel and a wide band on the other, the contarst was significant.
It was nothing less than a ~~Revelation~~~
Immediately ripped out the brand new weeks old Millenniums and sold them on ebay in 2 hours at 60% off.
Glad they are GONE.
Sure my system has a paper tweeter.
But its onlt temporary til the Voxativ arrives next week.
btw the paper tweet is 91db, which sounds superior to the Millennium's 87db.
Sensitivity is the single most critical spec in speaker performance.

The movement towards the new high tech wide bands, has begun.
Most folks have no idea what they are, how they work, sound etc.
Its like something from another world.
*no xovers?? huh??*.
I am glad I woke up , but late, ohh so late in my journey.
I'm 65 now.
 
botrytis said:
I enjoy full range drivers - they do have that point source magic - and vocals are stellar. As I said, I have had 3 different pairs.

You have no clue what my interests are, assuming yes, reality no.
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Let's see pictures of your full range speakers that have nice vocals but the rest not so much. Maybe we can figure out what went wrong.
 
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