Yes you can, and are hearing the cables ... They are in the signal path.
- Thread starter Akustic
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ConradH
Lunatic Member
I like Mogami, if only because they link to this- http://www.intex.tokyo/puzzle/index.html
audiotemp
Super Member
"The electric line and the electric wave are the same, and it is the same. It's not easy to understand, but I think about it. It's a good thing. It's okay."
The rest appears to be un-translatable.
fredgarvin
Super Member
One odd thing is my phono cables. When I jettisoned the Blues jeans from my source and preamp, i thought I'd try them with the turntable. Nope, sounded deadened. I tried a few other cables I had around and found that the ones I had been using, cheap plastic red and white unshielded rca's that came with some component still sounded the best. Unexpected but there you go.
Unexpected .. yes.
But not too surprising .. capacitance maybe ? Cartridges can be way sensitive to loading..
I've had a pair of original Discwasher Gold-ens floating around in the cable box since the late 80's .. a very low capacitance cable.
They were always too bright wherever I put them, but after 40 years of unsuccessful trials, I tried them between a passive preamp and an amp .. voila the right match...
Synergy... Your ear knows when it's right ..
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Here's a link to some basics of signal transmission ..
Interesting info about the capacitance of cable coatings ..
https://www.bicsi.org/docs/default-source/publications/tdmm-13th-chapter-1.pdf
Specifically, Electrical Characteristics of Insulation Materials ..
but it's all pretty informative ...
Interesting info about the capacitance of cable coatings ..
https://www.bicsi.org/docs/default-source/publications/tdmm-13th-chapter-1.pdf
Specifically, Electrical Characteristics of Insulation Materials ..
but it's all pretty informative ...
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ConradH
Lunatic Member
Google seems to translate everything OK for me, including formulas, so not sure what to suggest. What browser are you using?
Same here, could tune one way before I could play one. I have very well-developed relative pitch, but I won't say perfect.
But I just don't hear a thing between 2 decent cables. Nothing at all.
And that's fine. If you can up the ante on your own playback and enjoyment, I am truly happy for you.
From the late Roger Russell and my primary and secondary systems are powered by McIntosh:
http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm
I guess I missed him dying. He reached out to me back in 2017 when I got my XRT20's. Super nice guy.
I have no doubt that there are those who hear differences in cables. I'm just not at all certain I can, and with my triamped system and 12 wires out to my speakers, I would be long broke and divorced if I were to start buying boutique cable now for my rig.
In my experience it isn't necessarily an expensive proposition ..
They all sound different to me ..even the inexpensive ones.
I've found really nice sounding interconnects for $6.99 at Best Buy in the auto stereo section .. They were way, way better than the $30 Rocketfish boutique cables
in their Audio section ..
Topology and materials both affect their sonics ..
The Auto stereo interconnects were balanced twisted pair .. the Rocketfish were coax ..
The boutique cables might be a bit more consistently a definite improvement .. at least the Kimbers and Audioquests, but there are plenty of bargains.
Amazon is a great source for auditioning a variety of different cables ..
Funky54
Super Member
As funny as you might think your comment was it reveals you know nothing about it. It was actually cheaper for me to vertically bi-amp and tri-wire my 400 tube watts then to buy a 400 watt tube amp. And yes, absolutely, it sounds better with twin Power supplies, and yes it absolutely sounds better then single wire with jumpers. Before you pull out your clip board and calculator and try to say science proves something, I’ll save you some time, I don’t care what your nerd rules are. It sounds glorious and I’m happy.
So you can reply and get your last argumentative word and feel good about yourself because you’ve twisted stats on paper to tell you what I’m hearing if that floats your boat. Personally I’d save your time, and give up on audio and get into collecting calculators.
My ear has just always been way sensitive to the ringing of the harmonics ..
You said it when you said "decent" cables .. That kind of implies that there are "indecent" ones ..better and worse.
I just hear the differences .. it's often hard to decide which is "better".
Usually, I end up going for the one that is the most transparent, ..but just as often, I throw both up in the air because the frequency balance isn't right ..
For a variety of reasons (I blame it partly on the lack of measurable standards) we treat cabling and speaker wiring differently than other components in our systems. As the OP stated they are in the signal path so they will affect (an affect can be positive or negative - large or small) the sound.
The unanswerable questions (which are the same for many components) because it varies from person to person based on their system and preferences is simply;
The unanswerable questions (which are the same for many components) because it varies from person to person based on their system and preferences is simply;
- How much of a difference will they hear?
- Do they like the difference they hear?
- How much are they willing to pay to hear whatever difference it is they hear?
- At what point based on the system and preferences are they no longer hearing a difference?
I put a link in to Signal Transmission Basics right below your post ...
Funky54
Super Member
I agree with everything you said. But when a person does hear a difference (good, bad or just different) the problem is when we can’t find a measurement that quantifies it. The reply you get is “blind A B comparing” but if a few can consistently hear a difference (maybe not agree on what’s better, but agree and consistently identify a difference) the calculator crowd then says, “Well your test wasn’t scientific because that’s impossible, look at my calculator your hearing this number on my paper”... it’s just as radical and unreasonable to deny so many can, and do hear those differences that the measurements don’t always reveal.For a variety of reasons (I blame it partly on the lack of measurable standards) we treat cabling and speaker wiring differently than other components in our systems. As the OP stated they are in the signal path so they will affect (an affect can be positive or negative - large or small) the sound.
The unanswerable questions (which are the same for many components) because it varies from person to person based on their system and preferences is simply;
Personal experience/preferences related to the first three questions are usually what leads to threads like this devolving into mud slinging brawls........
- How much of a difference will they hear?
- Do they like the difference they hear?
- How much are they willing to pay to hear whatever difference it is they hear?
- At what point based on the system and preferences are they no longer hearing a difference?
I have a few guys I listen to records, swap equipment and compare equipment with. No we don’t often blind A&B.. but we have. I keep reading all these guys crying placebo, and yet that not my experience. I’m not a supporter of snake oil big money cables. But I have experienced them. And cables do often (not always) sound different. It’s subjective what’s better.
Personally I run Home Depot tri-wired OF 12 gauge wire. With my system that’s been the best sounding solution so far. With other system that was the wrong cables. My super cheap chi-FI SE amp sounds so much better with Audioquest budget speaker wire compared to regular OF copper ... I don’t know why. My joy is hearing and making improvements, not in trying to justify it on paper. That’s someone’s else’s bag.
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