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Yet another AR XA rebuild thread

Efvergren

Efvergren

New Member
Hi!

Me and my brother @Efver got inspired by @vishalk 's thread about rebuilding the lovely player AR XA.
Now we have finally managed the get hold of one player each and we are eager to get going with the project.
We have booth taken everything apart and we need som help / advice on the mass loading of the t-bar. We are also going to need help in fixing our original tonearms. Luckily there is a Linn reseller here in Stockholm/Sweden where we could pick up the Linn springs/suspension. We have ordered longer studs (3" that probably will be cut down) , which btw took ages to just figure out just the name of the stud and the dimensions.
We are booth planning to build our own new plinth's and doing som repaint of the top plate.

Adding some pictures of were we are now.

We are grateful of any help we can get.
ar_xa_strt.jpeg WhatsApp Image 2020-07-05 at 20.43.25.jpeg
 
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I would suggest first getting the thing up an running in standard form. It appears all the bits and pieces are there, and not only will you do a better job of modifying it if you already understand its behavior, but a properly set up AR is a very good sounding table even in stock form. Don't assume that change is necessarily for the better, even if the purveyors of bits and bobs would like you to think so, and even if internet 'experts' urge you to do this, that, or the other thing. It is fun to alter things - it give a feeling of active ownership, and, at least at first, whatever you do, if it works at all, sounds great. But there is a good chance that ater you may realize it is no better or even worse. So if you do modify, hang on to the discarded parts, and do the least invasive job you can, just in case...
What are the issues with the arms you have? It looks like you might need to rewire the one shown, but it is hard to tell from the picture.
 
Thank you for your reply @Nat
I'm the brother of @Efvergren by the way. I've had my AX for about a year, and initially did all the basic maintanance work; cleaned and change oil's etc. Got her in working condition, but the tonearm wiring was in a really bad state, half torn at places. One of the springs seemed way of, and had trouble getting even stance and bounce.

Those things need adressing, at the least. When browsing the net in terms of guidance I came across these forums and in particular Mr. Morin, who seems to have been some what of a guru on these turntables. The work he suplied seem to have been praised, and turned the AR-tables up a notch or two.

It also seem like an fun project; to create something a bit more unique, better looking and hopefully better sounding in the process.
The tonearm mods Mr. Morin provided with the changed bearings etc. is however something for an expert; something we would need help with, if the expertise is still around.
 
I'm glad you came across Marc Morin's site. The many years he put into working on and researching ARs gave him real expertise, and the many happy users of his rebuilt tables and and of his modifications attest to his being the real deal. I believe his associates are continuing the business, but I am not certain of that. If they are, they are an obvious resource, but there are others with good reputations.
Certainly if a table has issues, correcting them is necessary, and my cautions weren't aimed at fixing and improving. I misunderstood the situation, and didn't realize that the two pictures were of two different tables - I though they were before and after disassembly pictures. So I was concerned that you and your brother appeared to be intending to modify without ever experiencing tuning up a standard table. But now I see that you have that experience under your belt.
I think if you continue to work carefully and with guidance, you should be able to do a fine job.
 
Welcome to AK. Two of us, @Hose53 and I, spent a good amount of time with Marc Morin over the past year trying to learn and absorb a portion of what he knew. We can at least assist in small ways to help you in some of the things you are hoping to do. Another member, @sfrost, also is well versed on improving a stock AR table. There are others as well, but those are some places I would start. Have fun with this.
 
Thanks for your reply @StuartB
The tonearm mods; jewel bearings, added technics wand and rewiring (and what else available..), is that something you or @sfrost could provide us with? It is my understanding that these alterations would make a great deal of improvement? The wand swap might be more of a thing of practicality, but still seem worth while.

The massloading part we would have to manage our self, with guidance(!). I have looked at pictures of what I believe was Mr. Morin's work. It featured what looks like a sub-sub chassis of some sort of white plastic. There are rods connected from the t-bar to the led weights, so I'm trying to figure out the purpose of the added triangular piece of plastic?
Thanks for all your input.
 
I believe you are describing the jig Mark made for use when mass loading the ARs.
index.php

Quote from Mark in another thread about Mass Loading,
I have a setup jig and spring perches that I set the whole system up on before installation into the base.

It can bee seen in this thread being used.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=440285&page=4

When all three springs are compressed to equal ride height, the system will be level, and all three springs reacting to the same frequency.
 
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Yes, Jose and I can rewire and dampen your arm, add jewel bearing cups, polish the pivot pins, and add the Technics arm tube. I believe the technics tube/collar is a sideward move, but gives you much more flexibility in finding good headshells. I am sure Steve can do those things as well. We can also supply new delrin thrust plates if needed, more important for the platter spindle than the arm. You should also polish the platter bearing and clean the platter well as part of your refurb. IMHO reducing as much friction/noise as you can in the platter bearing and making significant improvements in the arm pivot points are the biggest bang for the buck improvements you can make on a stock table. Others may differ.....
 
Nice to see another AR XA project, I would advise you send your tonearm to @StuartB to have the work done, don't mess around trying to do it yourself that really needs specific work and will be the best choice, I didn't think twice when I got the late Marc Morrin (rest his soul) to do it.

Get new delrin thrust plates and maybe stuart can supply you with the ranges of wet/dry sand paper so you can do your platter bearing.

When it comes to mass loading and you're ready to do it the we can all assist you. Perhaps start searching for weights you can use, search scuba diving weights, lead weights, scale weights etc or find someone that can melt and form lead shot into a circular Puck, again maybe someone on here can supply you.

Keep us posted with your build, it really is a great turntable and with the right mods and work done it becomes something very special.

Enjoy!
 
The picture above is mass loading and weight distribution so all the three springs are equally loaded. You need to make a jig to do this, the triangle plate just allows you to position and move the weights where necessary to balance the subchassis.
 
Yeah ok, that makes sense.
Thanks for the link vishalk! Will need to find someone who can melt it to the right weight, seems a bit hazzardous to do by your self.
So the plan is to add 3 3/4 - 4 pounds of mass, additional pulley mass included?
 
Don't worry about the mass just yet, just do the main things first like building your plinth, getting your top plate painted etc.

I'm working on some 3D printed adjustable weights and a system that allows you mass load the subplatter.
 
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Hi everyone! Im very happy that you all are so helpful. We have a friend that has a wood workshop, so we will hopefully be able to start working on our plinth's soon. Does any one have tips on how to get the delrin plates out? I want to be able to inspect their conditions.
 
I soaked mine in alcohol and left it for a day or so, then used a long tool to shift it out.
You might aswell just buy new delrin plates, build yourself nice mint TT
 
We use a small wood dowel and a small drop of super glue. Gets it out every time... I will tell you that getting the mass loading right is trickier than you think. There are a number of variables. Just another example of Marc Morin's understated, often misunderstood, genius. (RIP Marc.)
 
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