Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

[Zilch]

Hi all,

Just wanted to chime in to say that I'm still on the bandwagon, but very short on time to tweak on my EW's.

HI Tom!

Thanks for checking in. We'll be watching for your project to post soon, then.... :yes:

 

[Zilch]

E'Wave Mini:

First results using the 8" square waveguide Skywave reported about earlier, here in JBL L44 cab with LE8T-H:

Looks like we'll want to adjust the HF compensation somewhat in the stock crossover. Anyone else seeing similar response?

I don't believe I've ever heard LE8T-H sound this nice.... :thmbsp:

Edit: History with some hints:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=6153

Re-edit: I used the 8" square waveguide and Selenium D220Ti in my Advent upgrade, and was able to adjust the HF comp nicely:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1934896#post1934896

 

[skywave-rider]

Looks great, Zilch!

My 8x8 RTA shows a rolloff as well.
So the curve needs some tweaking....
Beautiful LF driver. I like it so much that I want to make an "ideal" box for it.

As an aside, the same waveguide with BMS and your compensation circuit runs as flat as the Econoguide with BMS.

 

[dshoaf]

Looks like I'm going to have to bail out for a while on the Econo-wave project. Will be traveling - more like living out of a suitcase, actually - until well into next year. Its a bummer for my hobby, though.

I am open to turning over the parts stash I've built up.....PMs accepted (hope this is an ok post, too).

Cheers,

David

 

[wiredbecker]

The last two days, my router was down, again! I had that dumb router that's been giving me heck for the last few months. Now that my new router is running, I should be fine.

Perhaps your old router just needs a firmware upgrade? Depending upon the type of router you may be able to install an incredibly stable aftermarket firmware. Try it--you might like it.

 

[von.ah]

Perhaps your old router just needs a firmware upgrade? Depending upon the type of router you may be able to install an incredibly stable aftermarket firmware. Try it--you might like it.

HA! For a few seconds, I was thinking that's a good joke! Now I know the joke is on me, by me.

I thought the router conversation was about...

maybe he's making a plinth

 

[wiredbecker]

Dammit, I wish I had more experience with that type of router!

 

[Zilch]

Beautiful LF driver. I like it so much that I want to make an "ideal" box for it.

It's an amazing little woofer, and there's at least one designer can tell us what the "ideal" alignment is, precisely. I will inquire.

JBL made it forever, but sold it primarily as a full-range driver. They'll play flat beyond 5 kHz, so the smaller 6" square waveguide is also likely suitable, crossed higher than the standard E'Wave, probably, though.

At the other extreme, I've got F6 = 36 Hz in this alignment, and they ARE playing down there.

Two-way with PT waveguides is unexplored territory using these vintage JBL woofers, and it's a mighty sweet place, as several of us have discovered.... :thmbsp:

 

[Zilch]

Looks like I'm going to have to bail out for a while on the Econo-wave project.

We're sorry to hear that, David.

I hope you'll be back playing among us E'Wavers again next year, then.... :thmbsp:

Dammit, I wish I had more experience with that type of router!

WHOA!

A POWER tool, Wired one.

[Heh, heh.... ]

 

[mrTT]

Perhaps your old router just needs a firmware upgrade?

That I did! And it gave me more trouble. So, I called the tech support. She says, your warranty just expired. You have to pay $39,99 to get out assistance! So I said, good bye!

I thought the router conversation was about.

Ha ha. That's funny.
Back to the project. Still waiting for my resistors.

MrT!

 

[jackgiff]

Just added an LE8T-H link @ #2322....

So Giskard thinks the 116H is a better woofer? Do you concur?

I was planning to put an LE10H with a six inch square waveguide in my center channel, but the cabinet keeps looking smaller and smaller.



3.5 cubic feet for an 8 inch woofer? Thats LE14 territory.

 

[Zilch]

So Giskard thinks the 116H is a better woofer? Do you concur?

His suggestion that it would reach lower is why I switched to 116H in AR4x. I don't believe he meant to imply that it was "better," per se. It's certainly true about the LF extension in small closed boxes like that, but they do not play as flat and clean up higher, or reach as far at the high end.

I was planning to put an LE10H with a six inch square waveguide in my center channel, but the cabinet keeps looking smaller and smaller.

I'm going to try the 6" square one in this same cabinet next. It looks like LE10(H) will fit also, but I haven't run the calcs. I don't yet know how low the 6" waveguide will play nicely using the Selenium drivers.

3.5 cubic feet for an 8 inch woofer? That's LE14 territory.

Yup, and clearly not recommended for LE8T(-H); it has long since run out of excursion in larger volumes. Yeah, it'll play low in those alignments, but not very loudly without risking damage, as stated in the linked thread....

 

[skywave-rider]

Jbl le8t-h

Just added an LE8T-H link @ #2322....

Thanks for all the info Zilch. I bet they sound even better now with the PT waveguide.

From the link you provided:

I've done the LE8T-H in gobs of volumes, with PR's, with ducted ports, and sealed and the smaller volumes that yield a bass bump seem to perform best overall. It's pretty easy to toast an LE8T-H playing The Wall while it's in a large volume.

My favorite "fun" config was a 3.5 cu ft volume with an 077 on the top. But power handling was pretty limited. I hung the coils a few times and had to push them back into place. The LE8T-H can't even handle the same VLF as that cheapie 116H in the 4301/L16/L19 etc.

Older alnico LE8T's like a smaller 2.5 cuft., apparently. By way of perspective, "bookshelf" L40 is about 1.6 cuft., too small....

Seal them up with an LE8T-H and then add in your B380's for the VLF. I did some LE8T-H's with 044's in sealed 4301 sized enclosures and they worked pretty well.

Giskard (4313B from LHF) seems to agree with you. Smaller volume box better for power handling though fun can be had at risk to the driver. I'm having a great time with these in my .9 cu ft boxes and I think, maybe, I'd consider making a small sub as you suggested. Having said that, bass is improved over my previous EV 8"ers.

 

[Zilch]

Thanks for all the info Zilch. I bet they sound even better now with the PT waveguide.

Most likely, but I'm kinda overloaded with AR4x.

[They're stacked all over the place here.... ]

 

[mrTT]

Hi Skywave

Here is the graph you've asked to post. Again, it's a disclaimer. Cheap microphone+freeware. But looks very consistent with what Zilch has been posting. I am following Wayne's recommendation. R1=16ohms R2=50 ohms and C1 at .33uf. I like this much better. I feel like the high is much more extended. Personal pref, of course.

My crossover has some switches and what not. Following some advices, I have designed it for first order, first order with zobel, second order, and second order with zobel. Each has different cat. I like gadgets. That's all!

Sounds really good.

 

[Zilch]

Re: LE8T-H:

It's an amazing little woofer, and there's at least one designer can tell us what the "ideal" alignment is, precisely. I will inquire.

"Something like 1.2 cubic feet tuned to 45 Hz or run it sealed if you have good boundary reinforcement."

Thank you, Giskard! :thmbsp:

 

[Spectrum77]

EWG: Gentlemen, THEY'RE ALIVE.
I shall reserve my judgement until I complete more auditioning.

 

[GordonW]

"Something like 1.2 cubic feet tuned to 45 Hz or run it sealed if you have good boundary reinforcement."

Thank you, Giskard! :thmbsp:

Factory alignment for LE8 was 1.2 cubic feet tuned to about 45 Hz (L33 and L44).

I've had better luck with 1.75 cubic feet, tuned to the mid-30s. (tune to taste)... more extension, less midbass "mush". Sounds more like a later-model Tannoy on the bottom end (EBS alignment)...

No, it won't "thump" quite as loud in the larger box... but the bass goes significantly lower, and seems to have more "detail" (better resolution of transient information).

Regards,
Gordon.

 

[doucanoe]

Giskard (4313B from LHF) seems to agree with you. Smaller volume box better for power handling though fun can be had at risk to the driver. I'm having a great time with these in my .9 cu ft boxes and I think, maybe, I'd consider making a small sub as you suggested. Having said that, bass is improved over my previous EV 8"ers.

Oh great, now he will have to change his moniker again

RC

 

[Giskard]

I've had better luck with 1.75 cubic feet, tuned to the mid-30s. (tune to taste)... more extension, less midbass "mush". Sounds more like a later-model Tannoy on the bottom end (EBS alignment)...

No, it won't "thump" quite as loud in the larger box... but the bass goes significantly lower, and seems to have more "detail" (better resolution of transient information).

Then you just use an LE10H instead which handles a ton more input and has significantly better performance in every way. I see no point in using an 8-inch in a box for a 10-inch, epsecially an 8-inch with a little 2-inch coil (compared with the 3-inch in the ten) and no xMax to brag about. That's probably why I finally sold all my LE8TH's, cute though they are. :yes:

My recommendation stands. They are very old and very antiquated, Q too high and suspension too loose. I would personally use them sealed in the 1.0 to 1.2 cu ft box because they sound a ton better but I know alot of people wouldn't.

So Giskard thinks the 116H is a better woofer? Do you concur?

It doesn't matter if Zilch concurs. It doesn't matter what I think either. The 116A and 116H were designed with a much better motor. They handled a bunch more abuse than the LE8TH. JBL used them because they were a better driver for the intended application, a better balance of magnet, coil, cone and suspension for the task at hand. They were pretty remarkable considering their "cheapness" compared to the physical build of an LE8TH. I don't think that the 125A/127A/127H scaled up nearly as nice but alot of people liked them anyway in those L26's, L36's, L40's, L50's, etc.

fun can be had at risk to the driver.

They have stunning bandwidth, epsecially on the bottom end when used in the larger volumes tuned lower or when mounted in walls and ceilings. They just don't handle any kind of power. They really were background loudspeakers.

Here's the new JBL 8-inch. Big bucks for the SAM2LF though.