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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

I'll be getting ready in a few months to E'wave my L-56's and with that in mind is it Ok to get the 12" from PE for my 220's or do I need to go to JBL for the guides?
-Mike

Cool! Another L56 Ewaver in the stages. :thmbsp:
I had a blast making the crossovers and basically taught myself how to solder while populating the Zilchlab Eweave PCBs. :D

Between the two of us, maybe we can figure out the best implementation for these woofers and cabs. :smoke:

ROSSO said:
Junkyard 77 cent/pair Yamaha's are 40"x15"x14"

Those look like a prime candidate for the first official WEW (Woofer Ewaveguide Woofer)... :naughty:
 
811B falls into the same category as the Ducati! :banana: I see this as two projects, Econowave-Yamaha and a less defined 811B buildup.

I can't agree. Ducatis in blind abx testing are perceived by the majority to sound better than Yamahas.:D They just don't win as many races!:zoom::zoom:
 
I can't agree. Ducatis in blind abx testing are perceived by the majority to sound better than Yamahas.:D They just don't win as many races!:zoom::zoom:


(Thread hijack) Ducs are ear candy for sure! :yes: And next year, The Kentucky Kid and Stoner cometh! :banana:
 
I'll be getting ready in a few months to E'wave my L-56's and with that in mind is it Ok to get the 12" from PE for my 220's or do I need to go to JBL for the guides?
Get the "official" E'Waveguides from JBL Pro parts. :yes:

Plug the tweeter hole and order the 8" square PT waveguide from JBL Pro parts. A portion of the plugged hole will peek over the top of the waveguide, so I'd be doing the plugging with a decorative inlay, or a "keystone" overlay, maybe.

Several of us have worked with that waveguide, now, in different projects shown in this thread. I'm just now finalizing the crossover for it with Selenium D220ti drivers in original Large Advents; watch for info in my "The Advent Loudspeaker" thread this weekend. :thmbsp:

I could not have been more wrong on the measurements I supplied, was using information I read on the Internet for these. I opened them up today, pics attached. Inside dimensions are roughly 22.5 W x 22.5 H x 17 D. They have a 12 inch diameter woofer cutout, 5.5 inch tweeter cutout, and the distance between is 2 inches. Thanks!
That's a "Slam Dunk," as it were. Four of us have now built E'Waves in that configuration. Cool modern legs are available inexpensively at IKEA, if you also want to upgrade the "look."

Plan on adding a brace or two inside the cabs, and completing the cleats that secure the rear panel at the corners so you can get a good seal there. If I had gotten those cabs yesterday, I'd have been listening to my new E'Waves last night, already. :music:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=132559&#post132559

I had a blast making the crossovers and basically taught myself how to solder while populating the Zilchlab Eweave PCBs. :D
Just wait 'til you HEAR them, now!

[Assuming they work.... ;) ]
 
10 day backorder on the Waveguides.Jbl told me to call back first week
of February since I did not have an account with them.
 
Zilch,

What would be a good woofer to use with that? (Sorry if it was mentioned already...)

Also, Where exactly would the waveguide be positioned on the cabinet, vertically? You mentioned plugging the tweeter hole, but the waveguide is still going to need a bit bigger of a whole than the existing mid one, right?

And would it benefit me to upsize to a bigger woofer at the same time? The rounded corners may prevent me from going to a 12", but I'm not exactly sure yet. I'd need some mounting dimensions.
 
Also, Where exactly would the waveguide be positioned on the cabinet, vertically? You mentioned plugging the tweeter hole, but the waveguide is still going to need a bit bigger of a hole than the existing mid one, right?
Yes, you're going to mount the waveguide with its bottom edge ~3/4" below the bottom edge of the mid hole. Go up 8" from there, and you'll see where the top of the waveguide is going to cross the tweeter hole.

And would it benefit me to upsize to a bigger woofer at the same time? The rounded corners may prevent me from going to a 12", but I'm not exactly sure yet. I'd need some mounting dimensions.
From what I see, you're not going to get a 12" in the available space. The 10" I would use is 10-1/16" outside diameter. Cut a circle that size and an 8" square out of cardboard and see if it's all gonna fit.... :yes:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-315
 
Ok, don't laugh at the circulars! I don't have any cardboard handy... and they were just laying there....

ANYWAY

They look like it'll fit! I think the woofer may be encroaching on the curve by about a half inch or so at the very widest point. If that's not a problem, I may be good to go.
 

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Yep, I'm w/ Russell :yes:

Kegger and I swapped about the 811Bs, EWaves, 806As and Selenium DT210s, on at least 3 corossover variants during my Valencia experiment and the EWave won out.

About all the 811B had the edge on is that well documented gonadotrophic effect :D

It has been well settled also that 511B has a little more Imaginary gonadatrophic
effect than the 811B.

Russellc
 
And the grille? Still fit?

How thick is that front baffle?

[I'm thinking recess the woofer a bit using a router.... :yes: ]
 
I believe it's 3/4". As far as I can tell, the grilles will still fit. I suppose I won't really know, though, until I get it all installed. That's not a huge concern of mine, though. I suppose I'd have to modify the existing grills as well, to match the new driver placement.
 
After my incident with mixed up L-pad wiring, It occurred to me that when I had tried JBL 2425H on econowave, I had results that left me thinking the JBL wasnt performing right concerning the higher frequency, air, and all that top of the scale stuff, when compared to the 220Ti. After inquiring from Zilch about 2425H performance, and info from Wayne on compensating the 2425H, I really thought it just needed a little more "effect" in the compensation area. I ordered resistors and caps to make a range of compensation circuits based on Wayne's chart posted many pages back.

Well, after the wiring discovery and correction, I tried the 2425H again. I will have to say there is quite an improvement, and very little, if any additional compensation will be required. Now I havent built the JBL 4430 crossover clones
to try it with 2344A horn yet, but thus far this is as good as I have heard my 2425H drivers sound.

As to why the Selenium 220Ti sounded better in "mis wired configuration" I can only surmise that it has to do with the "pleasant breakup" which gives this driver its top end "sparkle." The JBL driver, being a fairly smooth driver, didnt provide this sparkle? Just a guess. Wired correctly, it now sounds fine. The Selenium sounds fine as well, and still seems to have an ever so slight edge
on absolute extention, whether breakup induced or not. Quite a testament
to how well this driver works, and is under 50 bucks.

Will comment further when my "compensation modules" are ready, if any differences are gleened that can be seen as improvement.

Russellc
 
It has been well settled also that 511B has a little more Imaginary gonadatrophic
effect than the 811B.

Russellc
Only imaginary? :worried: I'm sure I first saw Model 19's back in the seventies, but when I saw a pair of 811B's on eBay for $100 bucks I was just stunned. Maybe it was the alcohol? :yes: But I HAD to have a pair. I'd have bought 511's but they are perhaps a bit too much gonadatrophic for someone only 6'-2", 190 lbs, eh? :scratch2:
 
That's a "Slam Dunk," as it were. Four of us have now built E'Waves in that configuration. Cool modern legs are available inexpensively at IKEA, if you also want to upgrade the "look."

Plan on adding a brace or two inside the cabs, and completing the cleats that secure the rear panel at the corners so you can get a good seal there. If I had gotten those cabs yesterday, I'd have been listening to my new E'Waves last night, already. :music:
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=132559&#post132559

Hmmm... based on that recommendation it sounds like I need to get busy orderding parts for these guys :) One problem is the cutout for the original Bozak woof was 12 1/4 inches, and doesn't work with standard sized replacements. I'll probably attempt to fit a new baffle board over the entire face of the original one.

The IKEA legs are cool.
 
One problem is the cutout for the original Bozak woof was 12 1/4 inches, and doesn't work with standard sized replacements.
Uhmmm, LE14's gonna drop right in there, I believe, or a drum sander will get you where you need to be in a matter of minutes. I'm measuring 12-3/8" in an S99 cab here.

HPM-100 woofer is "oversize" also, I believe.... :yes:
 
Advanced Speaker Design adheres to the scientific method- the formation of hypotheses, testing, measurement, statistical analysis and evaluation of replicatable results. It's a discipline perfected over the decades by dedicated, highly-educated men with pencil moustaches in white coats. Experts.
I am not one of those people. That's probably why amateurs such as I should never be permitted to handle sophisticated electronic apparatus such as electrical tape. I am concerned that the guerilla group P.E.T.A. (People for the Ethical Treatment of Acoustics) are monitoring the 'experiments':no: that have been recently conducted here in Fukuoka.

Econo-Wave Random Application #3 (in a series of...)
Introducing the Wave Of Mutilation (Pixies, 1989) with special scenic shot.

dsc0136ff9.jpg

Yamaha NS-1000M - EWG - Kpm crossover.
Maybe this is hard to believe, but it sounded like a NS-1000M with the Econo-WG stuck on top.
Woofer connected to X/O LF better than run full-range.
Random, ambiguous adjectives: articulate, fast, detailed, smooth.
Will try swapping around C100 values in the Zobel to tune mids... hey, it worked with the last project!... really need the woofer measurements, I suppose. I'm curious what would happen if I whacked the Yamaha woofers on the large, ported cabs:scratch2:
Quite satisfied with the HPM-100 version, but I feel the Yamaha project is the next worth pursuing, if only to appease the Econowave Gods.

dsc0137ry0.jpg

Mounted the waveguides in boxes. Read (somewhere) of a bloke applying modelling clay to the exterior of a waveguide/horn thingy to address what he described as 'ringing'. My wife watched me conducting this high-tech procedure, and couldn't resist comparing me with a pre-schooler. My wife thinks she is funny. She is also no longer in my will. I can't say for certain whether the clay made for improvement, however my notes tell me last night was the first time that I have preferred the attenuator at the '0' position, rather than in a minus increment.
 
Improvements should be expected.

I've never listened, but those NS-1000 types seem to be a Holy Grail of sorts, so it's just a bit surprising.
Chopping up old Advents and HPMs is one thing, but we'll see. I guess the proof is in the pudding :yes:
 
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