Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker
- Thread starter Zilch
- Start date
Bauhausler
Rational Subjectivist
Gonna pass on this one. I need to spend the money (that I don't have) on mids and woofers for the Valencia 3-way conversion project.
ROSSO
Active Member
A bit of a rant...
What the heck is up with JBL Pro Parts? Has anyone else had incredibly bad service from JBL Pro over these waveguides?
I ordered a pair on January 20, 2009 and charged them to my AmEx. Charge is posted to my on-line AmEx statement by the next day. They were supposed to have been in stock and I was told to expect them in 4 to 5 days. Nothing came. I called back on February 11, three weeks later, to find out what was going on. No one knew. I was told that my order had not been "released" but it would be released, and I should have then in another 4 or 5 days. "Not a problem" I said. While on the phone anyway, I ordered a second pair, different part number. Nothing was said that they were not in stock. Also charged to AmEx. Second charge is posted to my on-line AmEx statement by the next day. NOTHING COMES. I call back two weeks later on February 25. No one knows why the first order has never shipped, or at least they won't tell me. They say the second order was routed "to the wrong warehouse". Assure me that the first pair would go out that evening Next Day Air and I would have them on February 26 and that they would look into the status of the second order and phone me back. I verified that they had the correct shipping address and my phone number. They did. NOTHING COMES, NO ONE MAKES THE PROMISED CALL. Call back tonight. No one in Parts can help me. I'm transfered to someone else's voice mail. Do you think I'll get a call back?
What the heck is up with JBL Pro Parts? Has anyone else had incredibly bad service from JBL Pro over these waveguides?
I ordered a pair on January 20, 2009 and charged them to my AmEx. Charge is posted to my on-line AmEx statement by the next day. They were supposed to have been in stock and I was told to expect them in 4 to 5 days. Nothing came. I called back on February 11, three weeks later, to find out what was going on. No one knew. I was told that my order had not been "released" but it would be released, and I should have then in another 4 or 5 days. "Not a problem" I said. While on the phone anyway, I ordered a second pair, different part number. Nothing was said that they were not in stock. Also charged to AmEx. Second charge is posted to my on-line AmEx statement by the next day. NOTHING COMES. I call back two weeks later on February 25. No one knows why the first order has never shipped, or at least they won't tell me. They say the second order was routed "to the wrong warehouse". Assure me that the first pair would go out that evening Next Day Air and I would have them on February 26 and that they would look into the status of the second order and phone me back. I verified that they had the correct shipping address and my phone number. They did. NOTHING COMES, NO ONE MAKES THE PROMISED CALL. Call back tonight. No one in Parts can help me. I'm transfered to someone else's voice mail. Do you think I'll get a call back?
dnewma04
The Healer
Russell, I think I am going to pass, as well. I have some unused 1", 1.4" and 2" drivers laying about that I need to utilize before buying yet another pair of 1" drivers. 
Maybe the better idea is to sell the seleniums and buy the DE250s?
I'm a little upset with myself for not getting the 1" 18sounds while on clearance.
Maybe the better idea is to sell the seleniums and buy the DE250s?
I'm a little upset with myself for not getting the 1" 18sounds while on clearance.
Bauhausler
Rational Subjectivist
I'd be SOOOOOO pissed! That's about the point where I abandon the phone answerers in the Parts Dept and start blistering eardrums up and down the corporate phone list until someone gets annoyed enough to give me what I paid for. You're officially entitled to stop being polite to them now.
The best I can do is apologize for them.
I'm not in any way "connected," but I have never received any but the best of service from JBL Pro Parts, and consider Carla and Dave, particularly, to be friends of E'Wave.
If some larger issue beyond their control has developed, I'll just bring in a stock of these waveguides to get us past that.... :yes:
Bauhausler
Rational Subjectivist
There you go being all reasonable. I'm a PITA on the phone, but I say go with your strengths.
ROSSO
Active Member
It's completely baffling to me why they would still insist on selling parts over the phone. Human dependability? Have they just not bought into the internet and the e-commerce thing? I'm trying hard not to burn any bridges here, but figuratively speaking, I've got a torch in one hand and gasoline in the other. I could get a refund from AmEx with a couple of keystrokes, BUT I REALLY WANT THE PARTS! I bought a pair of Altec Santana cabinets to e-wave. I bought a pair of Altec 891 cabinets to ewave. I've got woofers and drivers set aside. I really WANT to play along, but I can't get anyone to take my money! SCRATCH THAT - they have taken my money - they just won't ship the parts! Comically - the woman who is supposed to call me back this time is supposed to be the person "who processed your orders". What evidence do they have that they EVER processed either order? I sure don't have any.
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ROSSO
Active Member
LOL - at least they wil ship you parts in exchange for money!
I spoke to Carla on Feb 25, Dave tonight. He transferred me to the alleged "order processor" (which turned out to be the black pit of voicemail) a woman's name other than Carla that currently escapes me.
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The "Tent" has been down for months now. I have heard they are changing warehouses so maybe that's what the issue is. Who knows but somethings not right.
The service you describe sucks no doubt but it's not typical at all. I must have had a dozen orders to them over the years. Usually they tell you right up front what the stock status is and they usually ship right when they say they will. That's really screwed up what happening with yours. Sorry for your trouble.
The one time they did mess up an order I called them to let them know I got the wrong parts. I didn't make a fuss just a heads up and can you please send me what I ordered. They apologized and I was told to just keep what they sent. Then they sent the correct parts UPS Red to me no charge. Didn't even tell me they just did it. Boy was I surprised when I got the correct horns in New York 2 days latter.
Rob
The service you describe sucks no doubt but it's not typical at all. I must have had a dozen orders to them over the years. Usually they tell you right up front what the stock status is and they usually ship right when they say they will. That's really screwed up what happening with yours. Sorry for your trouble.
The one time they did mess up an order I called them to let them know I got the wrong parts. I didn't make a fuss just a heads up and can you please send me what I ordered. They apologized and I was told to just keep what they sent. Then they sent the correct parts UPS Red to me no charge. Didn't even tell me they just did it. Boy was I surprised when I got the correct horns in New York 2 days latter.
Rob
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tubino
A guy with too many tubes
Sorry to hear the sad story.
I just thought I'd mention that I ordered a pair of waveguides a little over a week ago, and got them yesterday. It was all easy and good, so don't give up hope.
If I were in your shoes, I'd probably cancel the screwed-up orders and start over with another card, one new order for the whole package... but I'd probably ask them nicely to throw in shipping for the hassle.
I notice a deathly silence at my proposition to try pairing the EWG with a very high Qts 12" driver on an open baffle, but this merely makes me more determined.
You laugh now, but I'll show you all!
Hey I just thought of a nice alternative. I have a couple of Tannoy 3833 dual concentric drivers with blown tweeters. Fixing the HF units with original parts is quite pricey, so maybe I'll put them in a couple big boxes with EWG on top.
Funny line!
I just thought I'd mention that I ordered a pair of waveguides a little over a week ago, and got them yesterday. It was all easy and good, so don't give up hope.
If I were in your shoes, I'd probably cancel the screwed-up orders and start over with another card, one new order for the whole package... but I'd probably ask them nicely to throw in shipping for the hassle.
I notice a deathly silence at my proposition to try pairing the EWG with a very high Qts 12" driver on an open baffle, but this merely makes me more determined.
You laugh now, but I'll show you all!Hey I just thought of a nice alternative. I have a couple of Tannoy 3833 dual concentric drivers with blown tweeters. Fixing the HF units with original parts is quite pricey, so maybe I'll put them in a couple big boxes with EWG on top.
Funny line!
Sorry to hear the sad story.
I just thought I'd mention that I ordered a pair of waveguides a little over a week ago, and got them yesterday. It was all easy and good, so don't give up hope.
If I were in your shoes, I'd probably cancel the screwed-up orders and start over with another card, one new order for the whole package... but I'd probably ask them nicely to throw in shipping for the hassle.
I notice a deathly silence at my proposition to try pairing the EWG with a very high Qts 12" driver on an open baffle, but this merely makes me more determined.
Hey I just thought of a nice alternative. I have a couple of Tannoy 3833 dual concentric drivers with blown tweeters. Fixing the HF units with original parts is quite pricey, so maybe I'll put them in a couple big boxes with EWG on top.
Funny line!
I'm not laughing at the open baffle and waveguide combo. I seriously considered trying it out when
I first visited this thread as I had just come from Martin King's thread over on DIY audio. His design uses an 18" woofer crossed over much lower but I think the E-wave mated to a nice 12" on an open baffle could be revelatory. I just don't have the space required for an ob to really breathe.
ROSSO
Active Member
So what Qts do you consider "very high"?
HatchetJack
Chillin' The Most
I ordered my waveguides february 3rd and got them in saturday.
Maybe they were on backorder,but he didnt mention it when
I ordered them. Might be a good idea to go ahead and order if you
plan on doing a build up.
Someone should build a double e-wave in a pair of those 4 x 12
Marshall cabinets, that would be cool.:yes:
Maybe they were on backorder,but he didnt mention it when
I ordered them. Might be a good idea to go ahead and order if you
plan on doing a build up.
Someone should build a double e-wave in a pair of those 4 x 12
Marshall cabinets, that would be cool.:yes:
tubino
A guy with too many tubes
Woofer Tester 3 tells me the 12" Stromberg-Carlsons are about 1.6. I just measured a pair of 15" Magnavox console woofers at about 2.1. I'd consider those very high.
I've heard some organs with 4 or more of these cheap small-magnet 15" drivers making very good bass.
EDIT: What I should have said was, making a surprising amount of bass. A guy played the organ, and windows were rattling. I don't know about quality, but quantity was there.
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Bauhausler
Rational Subjectivist
I have about 10 10" Jensens from a Hammond tone cabinet. They run basically without any acoustic damping. I think the number is 10J11. I wouldn't expect them to have good performance.
I am in for a pair of DE250+adapters. Wayne1, please PM me when you are ready to proceed. Thanks for doing this for us as the regular PE price is a bit too high for me.
On a side note, I met up with some friends, one of whom borrowed my EWG's. We measured the D220Ti along with the high efficiency crossover using a couple of Rane RTA's at 3dB resolution. My friends were very surprised that this combo has a frequency response of ±3dB from 1.6KHz to 20KHz. We also tested other drivers with this waveguide and the standard hi eff Ewave crossover. We tried the $$$2435, 2425H and maybe one or two other drivers. None of them reaches 20KHz within ±3dB, not even ±6dB. I left my notes in the box along with the EWG setup since my friends wanted to have some more fun with them. IIRC, both the 2435 and the 2425H start dropping off around 15-16 KHz. Pretty disappointing showing for JBL.
Btw, one of my friends tried the EWG along with the woofer and box of his JBL 4412 and according to him, the combo sounds excellent. He is very impressed with it. Without measurements, he thinks this combo is better than mine (JBL 4507 box with the 2225H) since the 12" goes up higher and integrates better with the EWG.
On a side note, I met up with some friends, one of whom borrowed my EWG's. We measured the D220Ti along with the high efficiency crossover using a couple of Rane RTA's at 3dB resolution. My friends were very surprised that this combo has a frequency response of ±3dB from 1.6KHz to 20KHz. We also tested other drivers with this waveguide and the standard hi eff Ewave crossover. We tried the $$$2435, 2425H and maybe one or two other drivers. None of them reaches 20KHz within ±3dB, not even ±6dB. I left my notes in the box along with the EWG setup since my friends wanted to have some more fun with them. IIRC, both the 2435 and the 2425H start dropping off around 15-16 KHz. Pretty disappointing showing for JBL.
Btw, one of my friends tried the EWG along with the woofer and box of his JBL 4412 and according to him, the combo sounds excellent. He is very impressed with it. Without measurements, he thinks this combo is better than mine (JBL 4507 box with the 2225H) since the 12" goes up higher and integrates better with the EWG.
tubino
A guy with too many tubes
JBL's graph shows a big drop before 20K, though impossible to say exactly where. {EDIT: I just read the line that says, "On a JBL Model 2350 horn, response shall be +/-3 dB from 500 Hz to 15 kHz.") I think it could be said that JBL's priorities put efficiency, power handling/SPL, and PA durability ahead of UHF response.
Which doesn't take away from the impressiveness of the righthand side of the FR graph for the Selenium.
On another note, I marked my open baffle board for the EWG cutout, right over the 12" driver. I'm committed to trying this, at least.
On still another note, for good cheap fun with the kids, put your mouth right up to the throat of the EWG and talk normally. Compare to talking without the EWG. For $9.90 you've got a lesson in acoustics right there. I can't capture the sound easily, but I'll get photos anyway.
On my final note of the night, what's your favorite analogy for what a horn does for a driver? My favorite is a sledge hammer trying to push pingpong balls, which is an inefficient power match. Put the pingpong balls (air molecules) in a funnel (horn) with the hammer/driver at the skinniest part (bottom), and wham the hammer. The high-density bunching of pingpong balls at the bottom transfers energy to the looser balls at the wide mouth, and a large number of balls (air) fly out in a uniform spherical pattern.
That's my favorite, though pingpong balls are not compressible, so the density idea doesn't work so well. Got a better one?
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