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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Zilch,
I did notice it, the board is nice. Where do you get them / what part number? I did not see the info...

I tinkered with the inductors because PE was OOS on the 1.5mH I core. And I went 15awg for the .6mH Jentzen. would I need to make any adjustments to the resistors to compensate for this?

I have to place an order for the HE x-over version parts as the top end can't keep up
I intend to run 2 of the 30Ω I already have in parallel to get R1 and add an 8Ω in series with the 16Ω I have to get R2.

Here it is with the L-Pad all the way up:
individual.jpg
 
Could you post the inner and outer cut-out dimensions for the woofer hole on those buyout cabinets you picked up? I'm thinking they would make great E-Wave boxes. How much did they charge you to ship them. I'm fairly sure I can show you how to make them work really well with the AE Drivers in an E-Wave configuration.
Click to expand...

These where $88 plus shipping.

http://www.deepsurplus.com/Speaker-...bc18d20d02e0f757.e3eSc3eMbxuPe34Pa38Ta38Rax50

B&K_1.jpg

The speaker cutout is 11" with a recess that is 1/4" deep and .550" wide. That would make the outer diameter of the recess just over 12" (12.1).


I also have the $44 painable version(B-stock).....The $88 was for A-stock veneer but I found out its vinyl veneer :eek:

http://www.deepsurplus.com/Speaker-...-Kit-Miller-Kreisel-M-K-V-851-VX-1250-B-Stock
 
NEO Dan said:
I intend to run 2 of the 30Ω I already have in parallel to get R1 and add an 8Ω in series with the 16Ω I have to get R2.
Click to expand...
I just use Dayton 16 and 25 Ohms.

Looks like that's going to line up nicely for you.... :thmbsp:
 
Neat, go to apexjr to get the M&K amp and woofer and you have a very nice subwoofer for 300.00 or so. I wonder what the original retail on the M&K was?
 
Fran604g said:
Well, my son, Andy, is home for the summer so yesterday we picked up where we left off at Christmas break. Originally we were planning on building AR4x E'waves, but I had this pair of Bose 201's hanging around, one with a blown tweet, sooooo....
100_1690.jpg


He used his laptop with WMP for a source and drove them with his K-16LS, the horn is a XD-120 from 18 Sound.

We threw in a simple Ratshack xover at 3K and EQ'd till it sounded nice. Very Nice!! We also found that by moving the horn back to the rear of the cabinet, it sounded the best. He will be building the Jackgiff crossover and we'll have to fabricate a bracket to mount the horn, and then we can really tell what they sound like, but so far we're very encouraged!
Click to expand...

Might also try (if you havent already) moving them back forward and reverseing the polarity to the HF.

Well crap, I see Zilch beat me to it. Damn, he's fast!



Russellc
 
Tiver said:
Fantastic to see that you have chosen this route. I have a pair of these from a church sale last year and I have found them pretty much intolerable to listen to. With some encouraging feedback, this would be an easy path for me to pursue.

Hopefully you will be posting with your results/impressions/pictures.
Click to expand...

They are indeed nicely built but not at all listenable compared to a 2-way AR for instance. This is a perfect example of the "measures good, sounds like crap":yuck: school of design. The only way to salvage any utility value from them is to reconfigure them and this looks like it is just the ticket to manage that. Either that or sell them to someone that collects entry-level vintage Asian rim loudspeakers, must be lots of those about.:lmao:
 
Tiver said:
Fantastic to see that you have chosen this route. I have a pair of these from a church sale last year and I have found them pretty much intolerable to listen to. With some encouraging feedback, this would be an easy path for me to pursue.

Hopefully you will be posting with your results/impressions/pictures.
Click to expand...

I love the AR cabs and woofers but I'm not thrilled with the rest. Too bad an ewave won't fit in an AR3 cabinet. I have a pair of AR3s that I've installed Kef B110s in in place of the midrange. They're insensitive but sound very good with the ewave on top.
 
Can't you use the 6x6 waveguide on the AR3? I am going to start my eWaves using the American Monitor 10 cabs and woofs. I have no choice but to use the 8x8 or 6x6.
 
djnagle said:
Can't you use the 6x6 waveguide on the AR3? I am going to start my eWaves using the American Monitor 10 cabs and woofs. I have no choice but to use the 8x8 or 6x6.
Click to expand...

Orientation of the WG and midrange would be non-optimum due to offset positioning. I opted for the 12X6 WG on top, which is messier but leaves the cabinet unchanged (mostly).

The AR cab has a brace that confounds cutting into the baffle as well. It's really crowded on there.

I've been using a pair of Kef 103.3 speakers that I got CHEAP off That Auction Site. I'm using the Behringer DEQ2496 as a DAC and in place of the Kef Kube EQ that the speakers require. The sound is outstanding. Much better than with the original Kube (which I have). The speaker cabs are scruffy but I bought a batch of nice rosewood veneer and Woj has agreed to re-veneer them for me. This will be nice. In the meantime I haven't done anything with ewaves. I need to get these Altec valencias out of here now that they're built out with different parts (D210 and dayton Classic 15"). Then I'll have room to fool with ewaves.

At the moment I'm so covered up in big speakers I can hardly move in here.
 
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Bauhausler said:
I love the AR cabs and woofers but I'm not thrilled with the rest. Too bad an ewave won't fit in an AR3 cabinet.
Click to expand...
They'll fit, but the mod is destructive, and the AR 12" woofer doesn't play above 1 kHz well, so it has to be 3-way.

It doesn't play 1 kHz well, either; AR backed it down to 575 Hz in AR3a.

Overall, the HPM-100 woofer is a better match with E'Wave.... :yes:
 
Zilch said:
They'll fit, but the mod is destructive, and the AR 12" woofer doesn't play above 1 kHz well, so it has to be 3-way.

It doesn't play 1 kHz well, either; AR backed it down to 575 Hz in AR3a.

Overall, the HPM-100 woofer is a better match with E'Wave.... :yes:
Click to expand...

I kinda like the ARs as a 3-way. I've tried the Kef B110 and a Vifa 5" midwoofer, running the mid from 200 hz up to the ewave crossover point and the AR woofer below 200 hz. It's insensitive but the bottom octave is all there and that's a must have for me.

I have a pair of HPM-100s here that belong to a friend. They're supposed to go away auction-wise. But that's 140 lbs of shipping, packed. It would be easier to buy them than ship them but that's how I ended up with a house full of wooden boxes.

I'd like to do a KPMwave project but I should probably stick with what I have on hand.

Feel lousy today but I have to get this ST-70 off to its new Korean owner TODAY. Pack, ship, repeat...
 
Zilch,

I have been learking for a long time and am a fan of BMS drivers. I have on hand 6 pairs of 4552 drivers and want to put them to good use. I have read all the posts and came across this one in which you have a ruler flat response on the JBL 90x50 PT econowave guide.

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=12036

I have also read about the Altec model 19 compensation you have used in the past and comparing that with Wayne's compensation technique. What do you recommend for a 1200 hz passive x-over for the JBL 90x50 pt wave guide and BMS 4552 driver? In all the reading, I still am not clear on which compensation you found to be most useful.

Also, have you tried the 4552 driver on the 6x6 small PT wave guide?

Much thanks for the great thread!
 
phred593 said:
I have also read about the Altec model 19 compensation you have used in the past and comparing that with Wayne's compensation technique. What do you recommend for a 1200 hz passive x-over for the JBL 90x50 pt wave guide and BMS 4552 driver? In all the reading, I still am not clear on which compensation you found to be most useful.
Click to expand...
You're taking me WAY back, now, and I'm not finding any documentation of what I used to do it in that thread. My vague recollection is that was a JBL 3120 crossover with and external L-pad to do the balancing; the L-pad appears in one of the pics. The throat adapter was a P-Audio PC-35. Those results were exciting, and led me to pursue other implementations, as it just sounded surprisingly good.

Member Mxlews and I went on to use that waveguide, which eventually became E'Wave, and the BMS drivers (he used 4550 and I used 4552), and I developed a variant of the JBL 4425 crossover to use in our C-36 Viscount upgrades. That one was particularly cool because it allows for adjustment of the mids and highs with separate L-pads.

I subsequently went on to work with the Altec bridged-T compensation used in Model 19, and that works very nicely, too. You can see me trying that with the Seleniums in the first posts of this thread. I have never disclosed (because nobody asked) the approach I was pursuing to do it better there, but it was the Timbers filter (tweaked) what generated the ruler-flat partial curve at #4. At that point, Jack stepped up to the plate and developed a minimalist version of the Parham filter for the Selenium E'Wave, and as you see in this thread, I have since become conversant with that approach myself, as well.

I know that's not answering your question, but what I'm saying is that any of them can be made to work. You're really defining a design project worthy of pursuit, but as with most all of the many E'Wave upgrade options suggested here, I don't have a cookbook answer, and can only encourage you to move forward yourself using the principles we have demonstrated toward your own successful design as others are doing and have done here. That's what Jack and I intended from the outset, and we have recently reviewed and reaffirmed our respective commitments to that purpose: E'Wave is a doorway to loudspeaker design adventure.

I have not tried 4552 on the 6" square PT yet, but it works very well on small waveguides such as JBL 2342, OASR, and the small 18-Sound elliptical. The next pair of AR4s that come in are getting the 6" x 6", which has worked nicely with Seleniums in Boston Acoustics A-60s here. Both Skywave and Jack seem to like that waveguide, as well.... :yes:
 
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Zilch said:
You're taking me WAY back, now, and I'm not finding any documentation of what I used to do it in that thread. My vague recollection is that was a JBL 3120 crossover with and external L-pad to do the balancing; the L-pad appears in one of the pics. The throat adapter was a P-Audio PC-35. Those results were exciting, and led me to pursue other implementations, as it just sounded surprisingly good.

Member Mxlews and I went on to use that waveguide, which eventually became E'Wave, and the BMS drivers (he used 4550 and I used 4552), and I developed a variant of the JBL 4425 crossover to use in our C-36 Viscount upgrades. That one was particularly cool because it allows for adjustment of the mids and highs with separate L-pads.

I subsequently went on to work with the Altec bridged-T compensation used in Model 19, and that works very nicely, too. You can see me trying that with the Seleniums in the first posts of this thread. I have never disclosed (because nobody asked) the approach I was pursuing to do it better there, but it was the Timbers filter (tweaked) what generated the ruler-flat partial curve at #4. At that point, Jack stepped up to the plate and developed a minimalist version of the Parham filter for the Selenium E'Wave, and as you see in this thread, I have since become conversant with that approach myself, as well.

I know that's not answering your question, but what I'm saying is that most all of them can be made to work. You're really defining a design project worthy of pursuit, but as with most all of the many E'Wave upgrade options suggested here, I don't have a cookbook answer, and can only encourage you move forward yourself using the principles we have demonstrated here toward your own successful design as others are doing and have done.

I have not tried 4552 on the 6" square PT yet, but it works very well on small waveguides such as JBL 2342, OASR, and the small 18-Sound elliptical. The next pair of AR4s that come in are getting the 6" x 6", which has worked nicely with Seleniums in Boston Acoustics A-60s here. Both Skywave and Jack seem to like that waveguide, as well.... :yes:
Click to expand...

What does the Timbers filter consist of? I dont seem to recall that one.

Russellc
 
Been a while since I've posted here but I've upgraded my E-Waves as per Russellc's advice. I found set of JBL 4507 cabs and 2225H drivers local and grabbed them.

Not sure if I prefer them over my Altec set up yet but I have not run them with SS gear yet either(only tube). I'll post pics and thoughts later.
 
Rex Everything said:
Been a while since I've posted here but I've upgraded my E-Waves as per Russellc's advice. I found set of JBL 4507 cabs and 2225H drivers local and grabbed them.

Not sure if I prefer them over my Altec set up yet but I have not run them with SS gear yet either(only tube). I'll post pics and thoughts later.
Click to expand...

Give them a little time, and just wait until you get 2235H in there. I found the setup with 4 ports open to out bass my A7s, although at first I wasnt sure, after listening to a bunch of music I was familiar with it became apparent. With the 2235H, I got bass my Altecs only dream of.

Also, I havent done so yet, but Kegger has a simple 1st order filter for the 2225H that can be used with the HF section of Econowave. Currently, I've been using the bass portion of JBL 4430 for the bass section. Its in this thread somewhere!

Some have suggested plugging a port. Go to Lowe's or Home Depot and get some 3 inch test plugs from the pluming dept and try that. Myself, I didnt like the result, seemed muddier to me, less open and dynamic, but maybe that's just me!

While the 2235H definately out basses the 2225H, the 2225H has slam that is very satisfying. I also operate these speakers towed in, but back against the wall. This helps 2225H's bass output.

Russellc
 
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