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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Zilch said:
HEY, RC!

Let us know when you get the real deal crossovers running, and we can make you "Official." The engineered HF compensation is essential to them doing the E'Wave thang.
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I just pretty much slapped the works together yesterday after some conversation with spkrman57 regarding a "parts on hand" x-over. I am already getting promising results so the massaged and de-buggafied x-over is a must now :thmbsp:

RC
 
doucanoe said:
I just pretty much slapped the works together yesterday after some conversation with spkrman57 regarding a "parts on hand" x-over. I am already getting promising results so the massaged and de-buggafied x-over is a must now :thmbsp:
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"Not gonna replace anything around here" may be premature. ;)

If you like what happens, consider moving up to D220Ti or better drivers.... :yes:
 
Zilch said:
"Not gonna replace anything around here" may be premature. ;)

If you like what happens, consider moving up to D220Ti or better drivers.... :yes:
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We shall see I guess ;)


Anybody getting anywhere with the 18sound waveguide? As you know, I like my horns... well, rounder :D

RC
 
doucanoe said:
Anybody getting anywhere with the 18sound waveguide? As you know, I like my horns... well, rounder :D
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They've been here over a year and I haven't done poo with them. There's lots of chatter on other forums about mating them with B&C DE250, but nobody's shown the requisite HF comp.

If you want to get into this seriously, you're going to have to get set up to measure and learn how to do it. That's my mantra, and I'm stickin' with it.... :thmbsp:
 
Zilch said:
The key is the cross-sectional area, and whether it's comprised of a single large duct or multiple smaller ones, the duct length will be essentially the same. If you use a single smaller duct, the requisite length is shorter for the same tuning, actually, but the velocity of air in the vent increases, and may be audible. Run the numbers on a pair of 1.5" versus a single 2" duct (Pi R squared) to see if you're in the ballpark. The box modeling programs can tell you what combinations of duct diameter and length produce equivalent tunings, OR, you can make your best guess and determine empirically from the built result. In any case, if you're getting close to the cabinet walls, I would install a 45° elbow on the inside end to aim the opening away from them. That counts as part of the length, of course.
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Zilch,

single 2" duct = 3.15 in2
two 1.5" ducts = 3.54 in2
two 1.25" ducts = 2.46 in2 (don't know if you can even buy this size)

I stripped the insides out of the speaker. Looks like I'm going to have to get a new baffle board cut to make the waveguide work well (too many holes left by the tweeter/mid/vent tube). This means I have the option of different woofers (have two OLA replacement woofers on the shelf, have two sets of ADS 8" woofers). The original Wharfedale woofer is a 12" of unknown efficiency.

Thoughts on the best combo of vent tubes and woofers?
 
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Hey Z, about measuring? I am thinking about going from my Behringer 3400 to the DBX DriveRack. It has a built in RTA and a mic jack. Is that all I need to measure speakers? I have an eWave project in the works and want to be able to measure it once I am done to see if the woofer (don't know what brand it is) to see if it is working with the waveguides.

ps, I would not be using the DBX for the crossover. I would use that on my big system. I would just be using the RTA; I think I can use that as a stand alone.
 
djnagle said:
Hey Z, about measuring? I am thinking about going from my Behringer 3400 to the DBX DriveRack. It has a built in RTA and a mic jack. Is that all I need to measure speakers? I have an eWave project in the works and want to be able to measure it once I am done to see if the woofer (don't know what brand it is) to see if it is working with the waveguides.

ps, I would not be using the DBX for the crossover. I would use that on my big system. I would just be using the RTA; I think I can use that as a stand alone.
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Consider the DEQ2496. This is the Swiss army knife of processor/RTAs. You can borrow my 8000 mic. The DEQ2496 has +15v for the mic built in.

*edit** If you want to fool with it I can bring it over for a few days for the 6/27 DAC shootout. I can spare it until Woj gets my Kef 103.3 cabs veneered. But I reeeaaally like teh way the DAC in the 2496 sounds. **/edit**

Regarding crossovers, I heartily endorse the proprietary boards from Z, having used 6 of them. Very compact and tidy, unlike my usual haywire ad hoc lashups.
 
BmWr75 said:
Thoughts on the best combo of vent tubes and woofers?
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Your dual 1.5" get you where you want to be, but as you originally suggested, they'll have to be a bit longer for the equivalent tuning.

What the "appropriate" tuning for any particular woofer is in any specific enclosure volume requires studying the combination in one of the box modeling programs. What we've determined is that it is possible to minick the original tuning using two smaller ducts. Whether that tuning was even optimum for the original design is itself indeterminate.

djnagle said:
Hey Z, about measuring? I am thinking about going from my Behringer 3400 to the DBX DriveRack. It has a built in RTA and a mic jack. Is that all I need to measure speakers? I have an eWave project in the works and want to be able to measure it once I am done to see if the woofer (don't know what brand it is) to see if it is working with the waveguides.
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It should be usable stand-alone, but unless it's one of the more expensive models that displays on a computer, the Behringer has a larger built-in screen.

I'm not sure about resolution; you'll have to check the specs.... :dunno:
 
Thanks Z and B.


B, I am looking forward to playing with it. I think my speakers are fairly well dialed in, but you never know. They sound almost overly bassy but they are JBL scoops so what did I expect. Cheers.
 
Zilch said:
They've been here over a year and I haven't done poo with them. There's lots of chatter on other forums about mating them with B&C DE250, but nobody's shown the requisite HF comp.

If you want to get into this seriously, you're going to have to get set up to measure and learn how to do it. That's my mantra, and I'm stickin' with it.... :thmbsp:
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I guess it all depends on how you would define seriously. Serious, relative to hobby or occupation? My father once told me, that when it comes to even one's occupation, micro managing and trying to become a master of all things related, is a life long task and doubtfully accomplished. The focus should be on mastering the most meaningful concepts and have a working knowledge of the remainder. Speaker design falls into the "remainder" category for me.

I will leave it to you to pursue master.

RC
 
Zilch,

Does the efficiency rating of a speaker come predominantly from the woofer? I suspect this because speakers I've biamped show that the woofer requires a lot more power than the HF section. Ask the question, because the Wharfedale 12" woofers I'm dealing with are of an unknown efficiency. Thinking I could take a speaker with a known efficiency rating and do an SPL measurement at a given volume setting. Keeping everything else constant, then switch to the Wharfedale and remeasure the SPL to get a any idea of woofer efficiency.

Am guessing if I snipped the leads to the tweeter in the Wharfedale, the efficiency estimate would be very close to truth.
 
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How many folks are succesfully using the JBL 4530 scoop/2226 combo with the ewave? It's the enclosure I'm leaning towards building for my ewave, after I'm done with a couple other projects.

This will be for 85% home theater in a presently untreated room that kills most midbass. Room is about 16' x 28' and opens into other rooms. Speakers will be smack up against the short wall. And unfortunately, the listening position is at nearly 50% of the room depth.
 
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Somebody should work up some smaller scoops for HT installs. Since subs are a "given," midbass can be "king" in a more modest package with E'Wave on top.

Any designs for 10" or 12" woofers out there? :dunno:
 
I can't see why someone with Martin Kings BLH spreadsheets couldn't come up with something fairly easily. Eminence Beta 10 + BLH would have potential.
 
My scoops have a 8" riser built in. Without it, it is called the c34 cabinet. I don't know how the 2226 would work in the scoop but it would be worth a try. The 4530 scoops as they are only load down to 50hz so if they were scaled down, you might only get 100hz out of them, or so. BUT, that might be ok if you have subs.
 
djnagle said:
My scoops have a 8" riser built in. Without it, it is called the c34 cabinet.
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Good info, I didn't realize that! I just thought a lot of people didn't bother building the 8" riser. I will not use it myself, since the waveguide would most likely be built on top of the 4530/C34. And that would make it too tall, above ear height. So I'll be going without the 8" riser.
I just worry that by bringing the scoop closer to the ground, that the sound will be adversely affected.

Yes, I have dedicated subwoofers which will be crossed over at 60 to 80hz.
 
We have a bunch of members trying to figure up a high-efficiency implementation of E'Wave. If we're willing to give up extended bass and look at the problem as mid/high boxes plus subs, some exciting options step front and center. There are good arguments for separate subs, as well.... :yes:
 
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