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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Efficiency of stacked woofers?

I'm intrigued by the whole Econowave idea, in that I would like to build an efficient speaker to use with my 6bq5 p-p amp.

I have 2 pairs of KLH model 20s (4 ohm) that could be candidates.
Would there be any advantage in stacking these with the waveguide
in between (not using the current tweeter or crossover of course)

Is there an efficiency gain to be realized by doing this?

The Parts Express page shows 107 db/watt efficiency, the woofers have
a long way to go the get anywhere close (yes I know the crossover can be tailored to address the differences)

Here is a mock-up of my idea
 

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Srm51555's 2235H E-Waves earn appellation as "Official E'Waver #87."

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2260584#post2260584

Here's where the Zilchster's quest for these began, 11/30/2004:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=35332#post35332

The chronological contents of that thread and its companion are here:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=9901

Yep, Jackgiff was there, too, as of 9/12/2005.... :thmbsp:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=69187#post69187
 
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I have 2 pairs of KLH model 20s (4 ohm) that could be candidates. Would there be any advantage in stacking these with the waveguide in between (not using the current tweeter or crossover of course)
Yes, run either as MTM or with one of them in "0.5" mode.

Is there an efficiency gain to be realized by doing this?
Yes, but others will have to tell you how much.

The Parts Express page shows 107 db/watt efficiency, the woofers have a long way to go the get anywhere close (yes I know the crossover can be tailored to address the differences)
HF comp uses 7 - 10 dB of that to make the high frequencies flat. Without that, they're significantly rolled off.... :yes:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4410
 
That thread sure brings back some memories. :yes:

Sure put some panties in a ruffle as well! :thmbsp:
Too many members liked what I was doing for traditionalism to prevail. Ultimately, admin created a DIY forum and it all worked out for everyone's benefit over there.... :)
 
Too many members liked what I was doing for traditionalism to prevail. Ultimately, admin created a DIY forum and it all worked out for everyone's benefit over there.... :)

Actually, I think the Zilchter brought about some much needed change for the better. Well done sir!! :thmbsp:

BTW That was one hellava thread.:yes:
 
When someone with box calculating skills gets a minute, can I get a hand. What I'm after is what tuning frequency would be best for my cabinets and drivers? They will be about 94 liters net accounting for the driver and bracing volume. These will be ported cabs. The woofer is a JBL LE14H-3.

The Thiele parameters I found were for the LE14H, but I think there close. Is there anything else needed to determine what frequency to use for tuning the ports?

FS 26
QTS .27
QMS 2.3
QES 0.3
VAS 147.2
EFF .89
PE 150
XMAX 8.38
RE 5.9
LE 1.3
SD .066
BL 22
MMS 139
FLUX 1.25

Any thoughts are appreciated.
 
When someone with box calculating skills gets a minute, can I get a hand. What I'm after is what tuning frequency would be best for my cabinets and drivers? They will be about 94 liters net accounting for the driver and bracing volume. These will be ported cabs. The woofer is a JBL LE14H-3.

The Thiele parameters I found were for the LE14H, but I think there close. Is there anything else needed to determine what frequency to use for tuning the ports?

FS 26
QTS .27
QMS 2.3
QES 0.3
VAS 147.2
EFF .89
PE 150
XMAX 8.38
RE 5.9
LE 1.3
SD .066
BL 22
MMS 139
FLUX 1.25

Any thoughts are appreciated.

A quick stab shows 27hz with an 11" long x 4" diameter port.

Max power down to 22hz.
Group delay = 24ms @ 25hz
-3db at 50hz, -10 @ 23hz. Room gain is your friend.
 
When someone with box calculating skills gets a minute, can I get a hand. What I'm after is what tuning frequency would be best for my cabinets and drivers? They will be about 94 liters net accounting for the driver and bracing volume. These will be ported cabs. The woofer is a JBL LE14H-3.

The Thiele parameters I found were for the LE14H, but I think there close. Is there anything else needed to determine what frequency to use for tuning the ports?

FS 26
QTS .27
QMS 2.3
QES 0.3
VAS 147.2
EFF .89
PE 150
XMAX 8.38
RE 5.9
LE 1.3
SD .066
BL 22
MMS 139
FLUX 1.25

Any thoughts are appreciated.

The main thing that port tuning does is greatly increase the power handling, and output around the tuning frequency by minimizing the cone excursion. In good designs the box Q is/should be high, and the port output is in phase with the driver above Fb, and out of phase below Fb with high Qb. Thus the tuning frequency also sets the point where the response will fall off fast, reaching 24 dB/oct.

One way to get a handle on a driver or get an idea of the ball park is to keep in mind B4 and B6 alignments. To put that driver in a B4 alignment you'd have the box volume equal to Vas, and the port tuning equal to Fs. Qts would ideally be higher but it will go up if you have a crossover inductor in series with the woofer, or you can just allow some error and run some sims to see where it would be.
A B4 is 3dB down at Fb with the maximum output possible without peaking - the rolloff is monotonic.

A B6 alignment calls for a box volume that is half of Vas or about 74 l for this driver, Fb is also tuned to Fs, and there is 6 dB less output at Fb due to the smaller box making it 9 dB down at Fb. An electronic peaked high pass with 6 dB of peaking is then added to bring the response back to -3dB at Fb again with a maximally flat rolloff. The peaking filter can often be left off with very low tunings where room gain will be helping out.

You'd be somewhere in between a B4 and a B6 with the 94 liters if you were to tune to 26 Hz, you could add a boost filter if you found it was needed in your room.

Another way to view this is with regard to what type of music you want to target this for. The lowest note on a grand piano is 28 Hz, and this or a bit higher might be fine if you're not interested in pipe organ or home theater effects. You could go as low as 20 Hz as a compromise if you wanted to reach a bit lower than 28 and didn't mind the reduced output or were willing to use a boost filter.

You could try some different tunings just by altering the port length and experimentation is probably best to determine what is best for your requirements. I favor low tunings since they provide a more gradual rolloff and better bass extension.
 
When someone with box calculating skills gets a minute, can I get a hand. What I'm after is what tuning frequency would be best for my cabinets and drivers? They will be about 94 liters net accounting for the driver and bracing volume. These will be ported cabs. The woofer is a JBL LE14H-3.

The Thiele parameters I found were for the LE14H, but I think there close. Is there anything else needed to determine what frequency to use for tuning the ports?

FS 26
QTS .27
QMS 2.3
QES 0.3
VAS 147.2
EFF .89
PE 150
XMAX 8.38
RE 5.9
LE 1.3
SD .066
BL 22
MMS 139
FLUX 1.25

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Search for UniBox408. It is an excel spreadsheet for box calculations. The LE14H was included in the ~720 driver database...may be in the smaller ones too. Just play with the numbers and see what you get. It really is pretty easy and you will probably have it figured out in less time than it takes anyone to actually post a response.

I get 2 4" ports at 7.63 inches = 40 Hz tuning, -3 dB at 37.7 Hz. I can't say it is optimal but it looks reasonable. Get a second opinion regarding using LE14H T-S values instead of LE14-3. I have no clue if they are different but I assume the model # was changed for a reason.

Looks like better advice already posted...

Good luck. The LE14H-3s are counting on you!
 
I believe Duff worked with the larger Barzilay cabs.

LE14H-1 T/S are closer.

You'll find them over on LHF in the tech info forum under transducers.
 
Thanks for the info and giving me a starting point. My computers are Mac and the few programs I have tried to download did not work, so as donprice suggested I may need to upgrade the software? Also, as Zilch suggested I'll look for the LE14H-1 T/S over at the LHF. Many thanks.

BHamm
 
My music is about 70% Rock (1955-1985) and 30% Jazz and Blues. Having the speakers play down to pipe organ levels is not as important as a well controlled, tight bass. Pete B thats a lot of info to digest. I'll order a Speaker building book from PE this weekend to get a better handle on this stuff. I'm in no hurry to build these so getting it right is priority.
 
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