Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker
- Thread starter Zilch
- Start date
They bit it.
Compare:
You'll begin looking at speakers from a different perspective:
"Do I like these cabs?
What'll work in them?"
[I gave $4 for the pair of Large Advents.... :yes: ]
Kegger
R.I.P. 1/12/1966 - 6/1/2017
Details to follow, but I have to report less then stellar remarks,
The woofers in the L100's may have comprized with distortion and beakup, maybe they were fried?
Whatever it was not the response I was expecting or hoping, my HPM's on this Ewave did not sound a
bit like what we were hearing, on some things it did show promise and others agreed, but for the most
part it was just plain not all that good, I was quite displeased with the outcome, :sigh:
ACK! An E'Wave FAILURE?
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=122946#post122946
Did you try inverting the woofer polarity?
Did y'all discuss chipping in for an RTA?
That shoulda been a slam-dunk, of course:
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=122946#post122946
Did you try inverting the woofer polarity?
Did y'all discuss chipping in for an RTA?
Kegger
R.I.P. 1/12/1966 - 6/1/2017
I agree shoulda been a slam dunk, no didn't think to reverse polarity as the polarity on
the tweeter is reversed in the Ewave's xover since it is a second order xover, but now
that yu mention it I do remember some JBL woofers being reversed, is this here L100 a
JBL woofer that has positive cone movement from the neg side? Darnit if it was, DOH!!
That could certainly accomidate for the "hole" a few observed, but the obvious "bass"
distortion I think was coming from possably fried woofers, which was a shame because
those speakers looked great, and if the bass distortion was from bad woofers then who
knows what that did for the other frequencies those drivers were producing.
I was hoping and expecting a better outcome, unfortunatly it was with a setup we did
on the fly that just didn't work out. Had we been able to test the setup in advance we
may have been able to catch some things an remedy the situation but that just was not
a possibility in the limited setup time we had. We listened for a while with trying to adjust
the pots and get it decent at times but not what I had heard in my setup and not what I
wanted to present to the group.
(We would not have been able to setup an do RTA there amung all the people attending)
I'm not trying to put this as a knock on the Econowave, but I felt it was fairly important
to post exactly what we had experienced in this quick and dirty setup we did here today.
the tweeter is reversed in the Ewave's xover since it is a second order xover, but now
that yu mention it I do remember some JBL woofers being reversed, is this here L100 a
JBL woofer that has positive cone movement from the neg side? Darnit if it was, DOH!!
That could certainly accomidate for the "hole" a few observed, but the obvious "bass"
distortion I think was coming from possably fried woofers, which was a shame because
those speakers looked great, and if the bass distortion was from bad woofers then who
knows what that did for the other frequencies those drivers were producing.
I was hoping and expecting a better outcome, unfortunatly it was with a setup we did
on the fly that just didn't work out. Had we been able to test the setup in advance we
may have been able to catch some things an remedy the situation but that just was not
a possibility in the limited setup time we had. We listened for a while with trying to adjust
the pots and get it decent at times but not what I had heard in my setup and not what I
wanted to present to the group.
(We would not have been able to setup an do RTA there amung all the people attending)
I'm not trying to put this as a knock on the Econowave, but I felt it was fairly important
to post exactly what we had experienced in this quick and dirty setup we did here today.
Bauhausler
Rational Subjectivist
I'm sorry I missed the demo at SMAC. Today instead of meeting a bunch of audio geeks I was in the shop working on tube gear or bent over the microscope trying to solder together wires 165 microns across. Don't ask.
I now have the cabs, woofers, drivers, horns and crossover parts for my Utility Large Advent based E-Waves. Hopefully they'll be ready in time for the next SMAC meet.
I did hear Dennis's half-finished pair and they show promise.
I now have the cabs, woofers, drivers, horns and crossover parts for my Utility Large Advent based E-Waves. Hopefully they'll be ready in time for the next SMAC meet.
I did hear Dennis's half-finished pair and they show promise.
Well sure, and no problem. We've built four pair of E'Waves using those woofers, in addition to my earlier experiments. 123A and 123A-1 are positive polarity, which would be consistent with that of other manufacturers. 123A-3 is inverse polarity, as is 2213H.
It should be easy to run the woofers alone, now, and listen for the distortion you heard. I'll look up and verify the lowpass filter I've been using with them here. There's a Zobel, as I recall, but you're using one also.... :scratch2:
Edit: Notes say L100 woofer lowpass is 0.9 mH, 24 uF w/6 Ohms + 30 uF Zobel. I'm putting another pair together in a week or so, and will verify.... :yes:
Someone is custodian and "expert" on how to use it. Instructional demos occur at group meetings. What could be more speakergeek fun than seeing how everyone's gear "measures up?"
It gets loaned out to contributors on a rotating basis for some reasonable period of time, and they are responsible for it while in their possession.
COOL!
We're leanin' on ya here, 'cause Dennis is outta town....
dnewma04
The Healer
Zilch, it all sounds easy when you put it like that but you've worked up all of these SMAC guys into a frenzy with the EWGs. It would cause infighting and dissension and next thing you know, eastside SMAC members would be fighting westsiders. It's a disaster waiting to happen.
Northside sissy...
Actually, I'm liking this idea a lot as I'd like to see what effects changing crossover slopes and values have on perceived sound; it gets my repressed scientist juices flowing.
What do we need here? I'm looking at Behringer DSP-8024s and they seem to be available for about $175 shipped, which isn't bad. Heck, I/we could buy it use it for a few months them go flip it again and be out shipping..
I'll do it because these Valencias have gotten under my skin. Keg, Newman, Ross, Denny, anybody else in??
Actually, I'm liking this idea a lot as I'd like to see what effects changing crossover slopes and values have on perceived sound; it gets my repressed scientist juices flowing.
What do we need here? I'm looking at Behringer DSP-8024s and they seem to be available for about $175 shipped, which isn't bad. Heck, I/we could buy it use it for a few months them go flip it again and be out shipping..
I'll do it because these Valencias have gotten under my skin. Keg, Newman, Ross, Denny, anybody else in??
I agree shoulda been a slam dunk, no didn't think to reverse polarity as the polarity on
the tweeter is reversed in the Ewave's xover since it is a second order xover, but now
that yu mention it I do remember some JBL woofers being reversed, is this here L100 a
JBL woofer that has positive cone movement from the neg side? Darnit if it was, DOH!!
That could certainly accomidate for the "hole" a few observed, but the obvious "bass"
distortion I think was coming from possably fried woofers, which was a shame because
those speakers looked great, and if the bass distortion was from bad woofers then who
knows what that did for the other frequencies those drivers were producing.
I was hoping and expecting a better outcome, unfortunatly it was with a setup we did
on the fly that just didn't work out. Had we been able to test the setup in advance we
may have been able to catch some things an remedy the situation but that just was not
a possibility in the limited setup time we had. We listened for a while with trying to adjust
the pots and get it decent at times but not what I had heard in my setup and not what I
wanted to present to the group.
(We would not have been able to setup an do RTA there amung all the people attending)
I'm not trying to put this as a knock on the Econowave, but I felt it was fairly important
to post exactly what we had experienced in this quick and dirty setup we did here today.
I just saw the pics and noticed that the bass ports were open, not plugged as in Zilch's picture; did you try them plugged and if so what was the effect.
I also noted a distinct lack of action figures too. Perhaps the addition of a Superman or Hulk figure would have boosted/reinforced the bass appropriately
Bauhausler
Rational Subjectivist
Northside sissy...
Actually, I'm liking this idea a lot as I'd like to see what effects changing crossover slopes and values have on perceived sound; it gets my repressed scientist juices flowing.
What do we need here? I'm looking at Behringer DSP-8024s and they seem to be available for about $175 shipped, which isn't bad. Heck, I/we could buy it use it for a few months them go flip it again and be out shipping..
I'll do it because these Valencias have gotten under my skin. Keg, Newman, Ross, Denny, anybody else in??
You know, the dollars seem OK on that. I'm hesitant for only one reason. When I get test gear in my hands it becomes a black hole for time. I end up endlessly tweaking and laboriously testing with the fascinating new widget. Not good for work productivity, since I work in this big room with all of my gear. Still, it does seem like the essential next step.
OK, I'll get in on this as long as someone promises to come over, stage an Intervention and forcibly remove the thing from me if I fail to answer the phone for more than 2 days in a row.
You should be looking at DEQ2496, with twice the resolution. That's the orange display Jackgiff, Skywave, and I have posted here; I'm pretty sure some other AKers have them.
http://www.behringer.com/DEQ2496/index.cfm?lang=ENG
Beware the discounted "B-Stock" and "Refurb" versions offered by some online resellers. They seem to be older units, and you may have to cycle through several of them to get a good one.
You'll also need the $50 ECM8000 mic, a mini-boom stand, and maybe $50 worth of XLR/RCA cables, so right away, you're up to $275 for the lesser DSP8024 unit. I was able to do a package deal on DEQ2496 at Guitar Center for ~$300. I have both of them, BTW, and now only use the DSP8024 as a tone generator.
http://www.behringer.com/ECM8000/index.cfm?lang=ENG
There are 15 DEQ2496s presently listed on eBay, and 24 in completed auctions, mostly "New," some possibly refurbs. The used ones seem to get a lot of action (15 - 20 bids) and sell in the $150 range without the requisite mic or cables. Most owners appear to have bought them as digital EQs, and are clueless about the RTA function. Again, you're up to $250 plus shipping, and it's a crap shoot without warranty.
My advice: work your best deal at a local Guitar Center or equivalent. If there are any problems, you can exchange without major hassles. Yes, they DO occur. There's a thread on them over on LHF:
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=19843
Plenty of discussion on other forums, probably, as well.... :yes:
Bauhausler
Rational Subjectivist
Well, I never comprehensively tested my AR3/5A Frankenspeakers. There's these Linn Isobariks to fool with. I'm curious about the low end extension of my Altec Boleros. Actually, I have far fewer speakers around here these days than usual. And I have 3 more pairs going out this week.
I've been listening to my little JBL 4408s and I remember why I liked these so much.
dnewma04
The Healer
The behringer is nice and very functional. However, it is very limited in it's measurement capabilities. If you are needing a very nice EQ in your system, it's a no brainer because it gives you flexibility and measuring ability. For anything beyond rudimentary frequency response measurements, I'd recommend a Wallin Jig which can be made very cheaply. An inexpensive mic preamp with phantom power, a Behringer ECM8000, a computer with a full duplex soundcard (most have them) and download speaker workshop. It's free, and very capable. It will allow you to measure passive components, simulate crossovers, measure THD and IMD distortion in both speakers and electronics. Pretty well capable.
Its more cumbersome than soundeasy and a little less functional, but still very very nice. In fact, I think MarkusIII uses it for his speaker projects, as well.
If time becomes more available for him, perhaps he and I can work up a little workshop of some sort based on our experiences and use it to tweak some local EWGs.
Its more cumbersome than soundeasy and a little less functional, but still very very nice. In fact, I think MarkusIII uses it for his speaker projects, as well.
If time becomes more available for him, perhaps he and I can work up a little workshop of some sort based on our experiences and use it to tweak some local EWGs.
Sounds interesting Dave and certainly worth a look. Do you think my old Dell laptop (1000 gHZ Pentium) would have the sufficent soundcard? That could be a winning combo.
Well, I have CLIO too, of course, but my concept here is a stand-alone portable system without a huge learning curve that can be shared among group members contributing to the acquisition cost.
I'm not so sure all members want to get so deep into this as to warrant having their own development systems....
I'm not so sure all members want to get so deep into this as to warrant having their own development systems....
dnewma04
The Healer
I understand where you are coming from, Zilch and agree that the learning curve could be an issue. Hence, the workshop for people interested. Not only that, the Wallin jig and a 69.95 copy of TrueRTA gives you 1/6 octave RTA (http://www.trueaudio.com). For 99.95 you get a 1/12 octave RTA with 48mhz o-scope capabilities built in, iirc.
The cost of admission is a little cheaper than a typical used Behringer. The Behringer is nice because if you decide to keep it, it's a top notch EQ.
If you use Foobar as your media player on your computer and have a 6 channel soundcard, there is a crossover plugin that is quite functional and allows you to use your computer as an active crossover with excellent flexibility. You can use it to play around with crossover points/slopes and dial things in perfectly, then use those settings on an external active crossover wtih the specs you need.
Andy, if that Dell is connected to the internet, go to www.speakerworkshop.com and download the software. In the menu options, probably under tools, there is an option to check for compatibility with speakerworkshop. My one concern would be latency issues on older soundcards. It may reek havoc with calibration if excessive.
The cost of admission is a little cheaper than a typical used Behringer. The Behringer is nice because if you decide to keep it, it's a top notch EQ.
If you use Foobar as your media player on your computer and have a 6 channel soundcard, there is a crossover plugin that is quite functional and allows you to use your computer as an active crossover with excellent flexibility. You can use it to play around with crossover points/slopes and dial things in perfectly, then use those settings on an external active crossover wtih the specs you need.
Andy, if that Dell is connected to the internet, go to www.speakerworkshop.com and download the software. In the menu options, probably under tools, there is an option to check for compatibility with speakerworkshop. My one concern would be latency issues on older soundcards. It may reek havoc with calibration if excessive.