Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

[donprice]

But a 2.8 cu. ft One 4" port ~ 12.20" tuning to 30Hz would work to? A little more spl in the lower, box size ain't a problem.

Was thinking about putting the ports on the side of the box due to the length of the port, problems?

Look at the link below for modelling results. Like DT said, tune to 45...not 30. Look at excursion below Fs (37 Hz in this case).

http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/more-info/290-590-eminence-kappalite-3012lf-more-info.pdf

Got a subwoofer or 3? The 3012LF would not mind if you rolled it off at 60Hz. You will need a lot of subwoofer to keep up with what it can do >60Hz. (80Hz XO is THX spec but why not go 60 if your mains can?).

Put an elbow in the port? Two or three ports? Slot port? All might be better than side or rear port. Go sealed if you have a sub?

 

[Slim_]

Thanks for the input.

Look at the link below for modelling results. Like DT said, tune to 45...not 30. Look at excursion below Fs (37 Hz in this case).

http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/more-info/290-590-eminence-kappalite-3012lf-more-info.pdf

Got a subwoofer or 3? The 3012LF would not mind if you rolled it off at 60Hz. You will need a lot of subwoofer to keep up with what it can do >60Hz. (80Hz XO is THX spec but why not go 60 if your mains can?).

Put an elbow in the port? Two or three ports? Slot port? All might be better than side or rear port. Go sealed if you have a sub?

I did some tests in winisd, so i will build a sealed box tuned to ~60hz if i feel i need a boost i could port it.

I have sub but it ain't a lot but the next project will be subwoofers so i have to find something that can match the 3012LF

 

[Clmrt]

Completed ASD1001 / ADS 730. I call them the Asdads. Not really econowave, more like building what you have lying around. I think Klipsch got started that way.

Anyhow, I messed with an online XO calc and with only what I had, made a 12db 2500 low pass, 3000ish 18db hi pass with the stock ADS 10", a Goldwood horn I got for $3 each, and the $29 ASD1001 driver.

The L-pad is just barely cracked open. Barely. I need to pad the pad?

Anyway, I got it right the first time. If the Lpad was centered and sounded like this, I'd say they were a success. I thought they were spitty, but the balance was just off because they don't get nearly the attenuation they need. Recommended.

 

[djnagle]

How are the highs Clmrt? I have used those 1001s before and they roll off fairly steep at 9500hz IIRC. They seem to need tweets.

 

[Clmrt]

Jury is still out - "burn in", you know. I can't crank them until tomorrow AM after everyone gets out of the house. I'll have 20 minutes then. The amp will be on all night, "forming" the caps in the network. yeehaw.

Preliminary findings are, no tweet needed. They do seem a little "hot" up top so I'm seriously looking into the pad the pad thing.

If you get the impression or rolloff from the spec sheet, I can see why. I wonder if there's a curve of it somewhere with a horn attached. The spec curve might be otherwise - the plane/wave tube thing some mfr's do.

 

[bwaslo]

I picked up 3 to go with 3 of the 6x6 JBL waveguides I order several years ago. Not sure what I'll do with them (or when). eWave mini or MTM:scratch2: Would like to find budget woofer to go with it...need to watch PE buyouts I suppose.

I can highly recommend the 6" Aura buyouts at PE. Very inexpensive ($9!), decent efficiency and play pretty loud. Neo magnets, so they hardly weigh anything. Can even do bass down to the 30's if you use a (somewhat ridiculously) big box. I made some little towers with about 1.4cuft tuned to 40Hz and they do very well. Now in use as my back channels.

I think Madisound had a 4 ohm version, too, if you want another 3dB sensitivity.

 

[djnagle]

Well now we have the $15 Denovo mini CD to play with for the very "econo" things like this. I can't wait to get a pair of those. http://www.diysoundgroup.com/drivers/tweeters/dna-150.html

I wish they had a graph for these somewhere. I could not find one. Could be the Uber-e-Wave

 

[dumptruck]

Measurements will be posted on the page eventually, but there are some minimal measurements on crossover + that little waveguide they are selling with it here: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/s...0656-and-Denovo-Mini-Elliptical-Man-it-s-ugly

 

[djnagle]

WOW, that measures very well. I wonder how it sounds? To bad I have so many projects, this could be fun to play with.

 

[DCinDC]

I have the same driver bought with the integral horn. ehhh

It is a bit splashy sounding.

And after about 10 minutes running at moderate volume it was HOT.

Love the idea, but that is not the driver we all want it to be. I gave up and use Seleniums. They are worth the money.

 

[djnagle]

That is surprising DC. With phenolic (sp) diaphragms, I would think they would NOT sound bright.

 

[DCinDC]

splashy as in messy mids, not as in overly bright.

 

[djnagle]

Gotcha! So maybe a good tweeter for 5 to 8 khz and above?

 

[DCinDC]

I only spent about a half an hour with it, but I don't think I would recommend it at this point.

I really had high hopes too, so maybe I was unfair with it.

 

[wingman65]

KLH Model Twenty Three E-wave

I just picked up a very nice pair of KLH model Twenty Three cabs for $20 with no drivers. Cabs are in excellent condition, first thought was Econowave of course. Couple of questions, should I hunt down the appropriate KLH lf drivers and E-wave the top, or just use cabs and buy more modern drivers. From what I can dig up info wise, the 23 was a very good speaker and shared the same drivers as the 5 which are a bit harder to come by than the over produced 6. Is it worth the effort to hold out for the proper 5/23 lf drivers and e-wave the top? Here are cab pics.

 

[djnagle]

Those sure are nice cabs Wiggy. I would first look at the classic line of Dayton drivers for a woof. I think the KLH driver might cost more. Then eWave the rest.

 

[Russellc]

All of this is moot as I have no extra money to do anything whilst paying for storage of the Zilchlab.

Interestingly, there's a lot of talk about IP in the final pages of that 200 page thread. Do the bulk of AVS guys even realize their project grew out the Zilch's Econowave thread here? Do the AK guys realize that Econowave grew out of Zilch's Quick and Dirty 4430 thread on Lansing Heritage?

I just really miss Zilch.

I miss him to. I was in on the beginning of E'wave, and set off the Geddes thing on DIY. It was those LH articles you speak of that led me to the E'wave thread.

You realize a lot of the old time guard at LH were mortified with Zilch's "Quick and Dirty 4430" series...if I'm not mistaken, that was the blow up that started the separate "DIY" thread over there. But yes, the 4430...likely the most engineering in a 2-way ever, there was an extreme lot of work on that monitor. Another classic Zilch thread was the "Babies" thread...there are several over there and are pure gold. One of the best things to glean over there along these lines are Zilch's instructions for making a rebuild of the 4430 monitor's crossover. Zilch's interest in the 4430 and improving on a modern day version were excellent reading, and a must read forward to the gigantic E'wave thread itself, and what led me to the E'wave thread in the beginning.

It was Zilch who found the speakers currently in my living room on MY area craig's list and notified me about them. JBL 4507 cabs, also known as 4647 when loaded with the 2225H woofers... I bought them, and immediately followed his advice about converting the 2225H to 2235H in these cabs, which I also did. I've still seen no reason to upgrade.

Russellc

 

[wingman65]

The only Dayton that will fit the existing cutout is the DA 270-8 with the alum cone. Freq response is listed as 25-6000hz, so no problem reaching up to waveguide territory. Any opinions on this woofer as a suitable E-wave candidate. It certainly looks nice.

 

[truth seeker]

The only Dayton that will fit the existing cutout is the DA 270-8 with the alum cone. Freq response is listed as 25-6000hz, so no problem reaching up to waveguide territory. Any opinions on this woofer as a suitable E-wave candidate. It certainly looks nice.

What are the dimensions you must fit?

There are many ways to proceed. The DA 270-8 is one of them. Mind you, the response is listed as you say. However aluminum cones will have break-up before you get even close to that. Also note the 88 dB sensitivity.
From their selections, the DS270-8 gets you away from the aluminum cone for just a little more $$$, and brings a slight increase in sensitivity.

A "fork" in the road for your decision is whether you want more efficiency at the loss of bass. Please tell us what you want. There are options among "pro" woofers down that road.

 

[DonQuixote99]

The only Dayton that will fit the existing cutout is the DA 270-8 with the alum cone. Freq response is listed as 25-6000hz, so no problem reaching up to waveguide territory. Any opinions on this woofer as a suitable E-wave candidate. It certainly looks nice.

Cab size is the thing. Cutout size is comparatively trivial. You'll be doing some sort of front baffle surgery anyway to add the e-wave waveguide....

But figure cab size in cubic feet, and then consult this table at PE, to see what offering of theirs match up. Look at sealed volume, or vented volume if you'll consider adding a port.