Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

[conket]

woofer for econowave

Hello everyone,
Anyone can help me to identify this woofer in this speaker, owner said it is 12 inch and came off of an old theatre. I am going to pick them up tomorrow. I am going to use this woofer for my first ever Econowave project. Does it matter if it is 16ohm instead of 8ohm?

Thank you in advance!

 

[Russellc]

Yes, What a project. It spread like wildfire to various forums around the globe. Remember the big stink on DIY with Geddes? Turned out well. Zilch finally persuaded him to test the original Driver/waveguide set up. That thread got huge also. One guess as to kicked off that hornets nest! Oh well, lots of learning came from that and in the end I think we all saw it as positive.

Russellc

 

[DCinDC]

Hello everyone,
Anyone can help me to identify this woofer in this speaker, owner said it is 12 inch and came off of an old theatre. I am going to pick them up tomorrow. I am going to use this woofer for my first ever Econowave project. Does it matter if it is 16ohm instead of 8ohm?

Thank you in advance!

You must be near D.C. I've seen those on CL.

16 does matter for the crossover, but may not be a big deal cause the important part of the crossover is for the high driver. I think 16 ohm will save you some money with the re-calculated low pass parts.

 

[Russellc]

On another forum, while building low gain class A amplifiers, I was inquiring as to good speakers to use, an extremely knowledgable fellow from Serbia suggested I try an Econowave with them! Right on.

Russellc

 

[DCinDC]

Hi

I'm thinking of building the Econowave deluxe using B&C DE250, Eminence Kappalite 3012LF and QSC PL-000446GP.
I have found all the part i need in Europe except the waveguide and if i order it from PE it will be ~300$ for two to me in Sweden, so i wonder if the B&C ME 45 waveguide could be a suitable replacement? It's only 167$ for two from Thomann.

Or if anyone got another waveguide to recommend thats available in Europe and ships to Sweden that could work?

I'll re-mail them for you if need be.

 

[conket]

Hi DCinDC,
Yes, I am. I opened my RTR a while back, woofer is very cheap made. I will use RTR box as a test for econowave so I can listen to the sound that everyone loves.

CK

 

[skywave-rider]

Russellc,
Dooood!
There are a few comparo graphs showing on-axis response of the QSC 152i and the Parham H290C on dodog's EWave combo crossover. See the post from dodog u quoted.

And post count? I'm amazed how we yammer on..........

Front dimension is a little smaller, but its actually deeper than the QSC unit. The crossover isnt designed for this wave guide, but not for the JBL2344 either, which I used with great success. Zilch would pipe up here normally, curve junkie that he was, and demonstrate the difference, which he no doubt measured many times here and over on LH forums.

I ran out of room on my build for the QSC waveguides but lukckily, it appears that Wayne Parham's H290C waveguides from Pi Speakers will be a smaller and possibly better replacement. No idea if they ship to Sweden. skywaverider took the Pi waveguide with my "Deluxe" crossover and the B&C driver:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=6113189&postcount=14769


Her's a link to the wavegudies:

http://www.pispeakers.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/276

Russellc

The depth of the waveguide allows it to hold 90 degrees horizontal. Parham from back in March:

Skywave-rider and I have been chatting over the past few days, and I thought it might be useful to chime in here. Specifically, I wanted to address the matter of waveguide size and shape, its width verses length and how that relates to beamwidth. Both the wood horn/waveguide I've been making for the last five years and the plastic horn/waveguide I've just started making use the same catenary flare profile of very specific size and shape. It's really a constant - something you can't change if you want to support 90° horizontal beamwidth. I also thought I'd throw in a couple links to information about crossovers and top-octave compensation to counter mass-rolloff. I know most of you guys know this stuff, but I see some newbies have been asking about tweeter attenuation. These links show why is isn't just attenuation, but actually driver/horn-specific equalization.

• Horn/Waveguide dimensions and beamwidth
• Notes for the DIYer
• Crossover configuration

 

[Slim_]

Thanks for all the input, i have been talking with PE and it will work to send with usps if i arrange pick up. The shipping is 60-70$ with usps.

I did look on the seos 12 too but as mentioned there is only fiberglass i Europe and they do cost more then my budget allows 415$ for two from UK, a bit strange when the price is 250$ in US i'll blame it on tax

Thank you DCinDC for your offer it seems it will work with PE and usps but i'll remember your offer :smlove:

 

[Russellc]

Hello everyone,
Anyone can help me to identify this woofer in this speaker, owner said it is 12 inch and came off of an old theatre. I am going to pick them up tomorrow. I am going to use this woofer for my first ever Econowave project. Does it matter if it is 16ohm instead of 8ohm?

Thank you in advance!

Just vary the crossover components for 16 ohm instead of 8 ohm.

Russellc

 

[Russellc]

I'll re-mail them for you if need be.

Very nice of you, Zilch used to do this for folks now and again.

Russellc

 

[Russellc]

Thanks for all the input, i have been talking with PE and it will work to send with usps if i arrange pick up. The shipping is 60-70$ with usps.

I did look on the seos 12 too but as mentioned there is only fiberglass i Europe and they do cost more then my budget allows 415$ for two from UK, a bit strange when the price is 250$ in US i'll blame it on tax

Thank you DCinDC for your offer it seems it will work with PE and usps but i'll remember your offer :smlove:

The QSC is great for the money. Glad you worked it out!

Russellc

 

[Russellc]

Russellc,
Dooood!
There are a few comparo graphs showing on-axis response of the QSC 152i and the Parham H290C on dodog's EWave combo crossover. See the post from dodog u quoted.

And post count? I'm amazed how we yammer on..........



The depth of the waveguide allows it to hold 90 degrees horizontal. Parham from back in March:

Yes, there was a lot of yammering back then, glad to see it persists. Excitement was running high, it was flat unbelieveable how good this cheap combo sounded compared to its high dollar competiton, as Zilch used to say, "stupid good"!

Russellc

 

[jackgiff]

Another pair.

The Indignia, developed on another of Zilch's collaborative threads is a very impressive speaker. The woofer is only a 7 inch, but makes great bass. I wondered how a larger version would do. Plus I had a pair of BMS 4540ND compression drivers that needed a home. Thus, these "IndignoWaves" were born.

Each driver had some FR problems that made a Linkwitz-Riley 4th order crossover desirable. Plus the BMS needed a parallel LCR network to fix a large overshoot just above the crossover point. And the BMS was so much more efficient than the Dayton woofer, that a two resistor L-Pad was included in the xover to drop the HF by about 5 dB. More parts than I wanted, but it sure sounds good when finished.

The woofer is a Dayton DA270-8, and the BMS driver is mounted on a JBL 6 inch square waveguide. Cabinets are roughly 1.3 cubic feet, and grills (not shown) are held on by magnets.

 

[skywave-rider]

Jack, those are gorgeous. I would encourage you to post the schematic. I love how you make your own X-O circuit boards, too. Your flush-mounting skills ... amazing. If there was a "like" button on your post, I'd click it. Where do you reckon the crossover point is?
:thmbsp:

 

[Russellc]

The Indignia, developed on another of Zilch's collaborative threads is a very impressive speaker. The woofer is only a 7 inch, but makes great bass. I wondered how a larger version would do. Plus I had a pair of BMS 4540ND compression drivers that needed a home. Thus, these "IndignoWaves" were born.

Each driver had some FR problems that made a Linkwitz-Riley 4th order crossover desirable. Plus the BMS needed a parallel LCR network to fix a large overshoot just above the crossover point. And the BMS was so much more efficient than the Dayton woofer, that a two resistor L-Pad was included in the xover to drop the HF by about 5 dB. More parts than I wanted, but it sure sounds good when finished.

The woofer is a Dayton DA270-8, and the BMS driver is mounted on a JBL 6 inch square waveguide. Cabinets are roughly 1.3 cubic feet, and grills (not shown) are held on by magnets.

Very nice Jack, and nice to see you posting. I built a pair of the Indignia speakers also, they are in the bedroom with my vinyl rig and DIY Pass F-5.
Interesting speaker, and no doubt solves the one of the Indignia, the lack of sensitivity, which is a given considring its small size and excellent bandwidth.

Russellc

 

[DonQuixote99]

Incredible work.

That veneer is too sexy for belief. What wood is it?

 

[wiredbecker]

Bubinga! Unreal work as always Jack. Looks like it was a lot of fun to build and listen to. Just incredible.

 

[jackgiff]

Jack, those are gorgeous. I would encourage you to post the schematic. ... Where do you reckon the crossover point is?
:thmbsp:

I don't have the xover schematic in digital form yet, and probably never will. I can't imagine anyone is going to try to duplicate this setup. The BMS 4540ND has been shown as being problematical on other forums, and the Dayton is very low efficiency. Not an ideal combination to work with. As near as I can tell, the crossover is at about 2 KHz. My instrumentation is not as exact as Evan's.

Interesting speaker, and no doubt solves the one of the Indignia, the lack of sensitivity, which is a given considring its small size and excellent bandwidth.

Russellc

The overall efficiency of these guys are not any better than the Indignia's. The woofer is not very efficient, which is why the crossover has a 5 dB L-Pad. The difference in outputs at 1W/1M is around 26 dB. Silk purse, sows ear.

Incredible work.

That veneer is too sexy for belief. What wood is it?

Bubinga! Unreal work as always Jack. Looks like it was a lot of fun to build and listen to. Just incredible.

The veneer is walnut burl. It is unusual to me because it has some normal grain showing, rather than only the usual dark swirls. I have another lot of this burl that is much more beautiful, but it was too small for these speakers. Maybe next time.

 

[wiredbecker]

Is that the same stuff you used for the 6300, Jack? I love the look of these pieces and need to learn to veneer one of these days. Nope, that was Bubinga. Anyhow, keep up the good work.

 

[jackgiff]

With grilles.

Here they are with the grilles attached, and playing with the Nikko NR1219 receiver. My oldest son James will pick this system up next Thursday when he visits for Thanksgiving.