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ADC's Bricks

That's excellent channel balance for what was a budget cart. Install the lightest headshells (and wires) you can find for either table and go to it. Don't forget that you can DIY a damper fairly simply, should it come to that.
Sadly, the 104-DEs, which used to be cheap 'n' easy to get, have become much more expensive, putting a damper on experimentation and what we might call taste-testing. So I hope the suspension block of the Tonar is made the same way as the original.
 
Yeah, I know that ADC recommended 0.7 great VTF and 0.5 for thE XLM. never having had a MKIV, i can't speak for it.

The XLM otoh NEED 1.5gr unless mounted on a VERY refined arm.

he etc all in the early tas LOVED the 10E MKIV but sadly, I haven't heard one,
 
Gary at thevoiceofmusic.com (my shorthand: tVOM) still has NOS styli for the 10E Mk IV. Pfanstiehl 107-DEX, ADC R-15E. Makes it worth trying to hunt down a IV body. [UPDATE: no longer in stock]
 
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wualta said:
Gary at thevoiceofmusic.com (my shorthand: tVOM) still has NOS styli for the 10E Mk IV. Pfanstiehl 107-DEX, ADC R-15E. Makes it worth trying to hunt down a IV body.
Click to expand...
Got a box full of bricks. Still waiting for a compatible tonearm. About 30 years ago a local HiFi store was going out of business and the owner loaded a box of ADCs from the shelve and gave it to me for whatever cash I had in my pocket. There's a Point 4, 10E, 10E mk II, 10E mk IV, 26 and 25 with extra OEM styli for each. I tried a 26 and I knew right away it wasn't a match for my turntable (an Empire 598). So the box has been stored in my closet ever since. I remember when I tried the 26, I found it couldn't track at over 0.75 grams without having the cantilever retract into the cartridge body and you can forget about playing warped records. At 0.75 grams, the bass was quite boomy (it sounded like the stylus was actually rattling in the groove) and the sibilant was quite substantial. I have since gotten a Dual 701 and my other turntable is a Yamaha PF-800. I don't consider either to have low mass tonearms although they are considerably lighter than the Empire. Both play the "low mass" ADC cartridges perfectly fine (at 1 gram). This discussion thread has peaked my curiosity and I may bring out the 26 and see how it tracks on my Dual and Yamaha, although I doubt I will be overwhelmed.
 
Before anybody tries just ONE gram VTF, you should get a test record for tracking.

Shure has various ones but would get Era 3 or later. Otherwise, Steely Dan's Royal Scam will do nicely. Cut rwo on either side has high energy cymbals that were probably EQed a bit hot which provides a good tracking test.

If a cartridge can track those cuts, it can track ANYTHING.

Once again, ADCs recommendation is waaay too low. Shure and ADC had a "lowest tracking war" back in the 60s and a lot of records were ruined by mistracking.

When a stylus is mistracking, the diamond loses contact with the groove wall and is accelerated into adjacent groove wall at high velocity and damaging pressures.

That was a lot and enough said, i hope.
 
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The Tonar arrived finally. Stylus looks good. I found a very light head shell to mount it in but no wires. I have ordered them but it will be a few days more. It looks like the total package head shell, cart and wires will be right at 15 grams. Here are a few picts of the Tonar. PS sorry for the cell phone quality.Tonar 1.jpg tonar 3.jpg tonar 4.jpg tonar 5.jpg
 
The stone is nicely polished of the bonded variety. There is a blue rectangle on the cantilever. Tonar is Netherlands
though where the parts are from who knows.
 
hifitommy said:
Here's further important info:

http://breieraudio.com/blog/why-do-diamond-needles-and-vinyl-records-wear-out/

Notice the PPSI at which the stylus presses on the record AND the Tompkins the vinyl reaches. This is relevant scientific data.
Click to expand...

I mounted my 26 on my Dual 701. The bottom of the cartridge body barely cleared the record surface at 1 gram VTF. Listened to my records at 0.75 gram VTF. Even at that weight I feared the cartridge body would touch the surface on a warped record. At 0.75 grams, there is slight sibilance distortion. Shure Audio Obstacle Era IV distortion on level 4 and 5 but no hard mis-tracking. On the whole, I would describe the listening experience as fatigued.
ADC26-1.jpg ADC26-2.jpg
 
it's hard for me to absorb that the 10Es were more capable trackers than the XLM. yes, they had soft suspensions but the XLM still required 1.5 except on the rabco st4 that i modified. i was more that pleased with myself for that accomplishment.

i know that before the XLM, hp and the boys at tas did have a love affair with the 10Es but quickly dropped it with the advent of the XLM.
 
I bought a new genuine stylus for my pre-brick 770 and it arrived in good shape except for...you guessed it...I had to glue the magnet back on.

:D

Doug
 
It doesn't appear so. I'm not where my little handheld Lafayette 75X (I think it's about 50 years old) stylus scope is right now but the diamond is intact and the cantilever is straight.

I also don't have the cartridge/old stylus here so I can't directly compare but it seems the one on there now is aftermarket. I think the carrier/grip is more translucent on it. This one is real solid red.

Next time I go to my apartment, I'll retrieve it.

Doug
 
OK, so I went to Rochester and got my 770. I had forgotten that the stylus assembly on it had the two separate magnets stuck at an angle through holes and look like wedges near the cantilever. The new one I just got has the more conventional rectangular magnet. Those whacky ADC folks.

Doug
 
Just found a ADC 10E MK IV with 104DE stylus. The sound is awesome. Do I need a lightweight arm to get even BETTER sound?
 
Lemme put it this way: Consider putting a lightweight arm or, even more fun, a whole new turntable with a lightweight arm (or, even better, one of the turntables with active damping, like the Sony Biotracer models) on your shopping list. Take your time, poke around, ask questions. In the meantime, simply continue enjoying the sound.

The problem with the Bricks is that they are both heavy and very compliant, which can put the arm-cartridge system resonance down in the warp region, so keep one eye on your woofer cones and make sure they don't wobble visibly as they play silent grooves, where of course there shouldn't be any woofer movement at all.

Which [Pfanstiehl] 104-DE stylus came with the 10E-IV?

Another thing to consider putting on your shopping list is a 107-DEX stylus. Prices have unfortunately gone up in recent years-- a genuine example would, at present, cost you less than $55 shipped, but in compensation, it's voiced specifically for the 10E-IV body-- the tippy-top end won't roll off as with the 104s-- and it will track better, which in my opinion is more important. But if you like the sound as-is, don't hesitate to carry on as you are.
 
wualta said:
Lemme put it this way: Consider putting a lightweight arm or, even more fun, a whole new turntable with a lightweight arm (or, even better, one of the turntables with active damping, like the Sony Biotracer models) on your shopping list. Take your time, poke around, ask questions. In the meantime, simply continue enjoying the sound.

The problem with the Bricks is that they are both heavy and very compliant, which can put the arm-cartridge system resonance down in the warp region, so keep one eye on your woofer cones and make sure they don't wobble visibly as they play silent grooves, where of course there shouldn't be any woofer movement at all.

Which [Pfanstiehl] 104-DE stylus came with the 10E-IV?

Another thing to consider putting on your shopping list is a 107-DEX stylus. Prices have unfortunately gone up in recent years-- a genuine example would, at present, cost you less than $55 shipped, but in compensation, it's voiced specifically for the 10E-IV body-- the tippy-top end won't roll off as with the 104s-- and it will track better, which in my opinion is more important. But if you like the sound as-is, don't hesitate to carry on as you are.
Click to expand...
I'm using a Technics table and tracking at 1.3 grams and don't notice any woofer cone issue. The cartridge extends quite well in the treble region as well as the bass and midrange. Hard to imagine it sounding much better.
 
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