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Adding remote control to a Dynaco PAS3

kotofei

permanent gear evolution
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I’m getting a new (to me) Dynaco PAS3 preamp and would like to add remote controlled volume and input switching capabilities to it. This thread will be dedicated to the task and progress (if any) will be documented here.

UPDATE: Both volume and inputs are now remotely controlled.

I’m going to use a kit from this auction site with 100K ALPS pot, four relay-controlled inputs, input selector and a remote: http://www.ebay.com/itm/321828527713?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT It requires 6-9V AC input voltage which I’m going to tap from the filament transformer of the new "Kit #10" regulated power supply PAS3-REG-PSU upgrade kit, v18 from Tubes Nirvana (they now sell all Tubes for HiFi Dynaco Pas boards and kits). If that doesn’t work I’ll install a special transformer or use a wallwart power supply.

My question is: has anybody try something similar? I will do other mods to the PAS3; however, this is the one I’m mostly interested in implementing.
 

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If you're running stock boards, those want a 250k volume pot if I'm not mistaken. Not sure, but other mods may be designed around that same pot value. If you can get a remote rig that has that value, it might be to your advantage.

I dig it though. I've got a pair of boards to assemble a preamp around myself, and I haven't really looked into switching. I hate wiring rotary switches and the bundles of wire involved. A relay driven input board would be a nice clean solution to that, and since the volume control is an actual pot rather than a digital processor chip, it shouldn't negatively affect anything.

One thing though, if you can get more inputs, that might also be useful. The stock setup has 6, 3 are effectively phono level, 3 are line-level. You can modify that to be anything you like, but one of the input positions would be occupied by the phono amp. With a 4 position selector, one would have to be occupied by the output of the phono board, leaving you with 3.
 
I've used the relay boards with no problems. Small and easy to mount pretty much anywhere. The ones i used were 12v. I would like to find one that used 6v relays and run it off the 6.3v heater winding, no extra trany needed.
 
a PAS doesn't have a 6.3 heater winding either really. DC heaters, runs about 22vdc with the heaters on each board in series. The rectifier runs on 12vac.
 
Why is remote so necessary? I am physically challenged, my systems don't have remote. As I lack $6500 to buy new gear of close quality. Dumbed down is lesser. What's a few steps to adjust something? Hate to come across that way. I like my Dynaco original or not too modded. (mine does have better grade passive components, I did that when I built my kits in 1973)
 
I’m getting a new (to me) Dynaco PAS3 preamp and would like to add remote controlled volume and input switching capabilities to it.

How are you going to deal with 6 inputs to 4 inputs as far as the front panel labeling goes?
 
If you're running stock boards, those want a 250k volume pot if I'm not mistaken. Not sure, but other mods may be designed around that same pot value. If you can get a remote rig that has that value, it might be to your advantage.


That’s true, it’s 250K pot. I didn’t find any kits with motorized pots above 100K ( that’s the pot in a kit I’m going to order) or ALPS pots above this value. A 200K Bourns motorized pot exists and was available from Mouser and others (Mouser cat # 652-PRM162K425K204A2); however, it’s on backorder for 13 weeks in Mouser and all other suppliers.


That might be a problem since if you look at PAS3 schematics this 250K is what the first triode of the line amp sees. I can add a 150K resistor in series while removing the 47K grid stopper-like resistor connected to the BS part of the input switch selector but this leads to a gain loss. Any suggestions on solving this pot mismatch?

One thing though, if you can get more inputs, that might also be useful. The stock setup has 6, 3 are effectively phono level, 3 are line-level. You can modify that to be anything you like, but one of the input positions would be occupied by the phono amp. With a 4 position selector, one would have to be occupied by the output of the phono board, leaving you with 3.


Three inputs plus phono should be fine for me: currently I use a CD player, a tape deck and occasionally a tuner. I see a tape monitor in a PAS3 (why it has a 47K resistor in series?); would be a nice thing to add a buffer to it later. Extra inputs are good but I didn’t see a kit with more than four in my price range.


a PAS doesn't have a 6.3 heater winding either really. DC heaters, runs about 22vdc with the heaters on each board in series. The rectifier runs on 12vac.

I will be replacing original PAS power supply with two-transformer one from Audio Nirvana. I hope that I can tap into a filament heater winding before the regulator. The motor takes 100 mA for rotation and 150 mA at the end of the turn so hopefully it’s manageable.

Yet another solution might be to keep the original PAS3 tranny with changing filtering caps and diodes, eliminate the “Power on” bulb that takes 100mA from the heater power supply and instead use this power for remote, adding a resistor to lower voltage to 6V AC . However, I don’t know what is the power consumption by remote controller components other than motor including relays and losses at the voltage regulator/AC to DC converter.

The best solution might be to get a small separate transformer for the remote.

Why is remote so necessary? I am physically challenged, my systems don't have remote. As I lack $6500 to buy new gear of close quality. Dumbed down is lesser. What's a few steps to adjust something? Hate to come across that way. I like my Dynaco original or not too modded. (mine does have better grade passive components, I did that when I built my kits in 1973)

I have to make a confession: I like comfort too much. I hate to do these few steps to adjust something esp. decrease the volume when someone is talking or the phone ringing.

I sold a few very nice pieces of gear including a Pioneer SA-9800 amp that was an outstanding match to my speakers and other system components b/c they didn’t have remotes. PAS-3 is a rare example of a tube preamp that seems to have enough space to install a motorized remote control, its PCB and relays- this was the main reason I purchased it. Sure I’ll replace old components in the PAS-3.

I did this, at least partly. In addition i added cathode followers for both the line output and tape output.

Seehttp://n.manet.nu/fm1/fm1.html

Nice idea; however, I don’t want to go into this Arduino business since it’s looks to be a an easier solution with this kit.

How are you going to deal with 6 inputs to 4 inputs as far as the front panel labeling goes?

Looking at the PAS3 schematics, I see that the Phono, Tape and Spec inputs go into the phono preamp (or am I wrong? The PAS3 input switch is such a freaking complicated rat’s nest!) If this is so, I’ll eliminate two of them leaving just one relay-controlled phono input. The other 3 inputs, AM, MPX and Spare seem to be linear. Overall, replacement of input selector with relays hopefully will streamline PAS3 inputs.
 
yep, tape, special, and phono all go to the phono board. If you're eliminating the stock switch, you'll need to move a couple of parts from the switch to the board to keep the RIAA curve. Its that stuff in the middle of it, though you'd have to look at the schematic to figure which particular parts need to be kept. I think its the two big 2750pf caps but there might be a resistor in there too.
 
The remote kit is ordered (from China); hopefully it wouldn't take very long to get it.

I contacted Tubes Nirvana regarding their power supply v.18 kit and learned that their filament transformer delivers 800 mA while tubes need 600 mA. So tapping it to power remote could be doable; however, it's 24VAC output voltage so I'll need to do something to lower it. Also, it's not a good idea to use this transformer to its full capacity.

So I decided to add another small transformer for the remote. This 6.3 V 600 mA Hammond, Mouser part 546-166G6 looks good; however, it's a bit large , 6 x 3.5 x 3.5 cm and and goes for $16.27. On the other hand, that auction site has something called HAHN Power Transformer 115V to 9V 1.9VA which is smaller and slightly over $10 shipped. Another ebay candidate is the 6V Transformer 6V-0-6V CT 12V 500mA item 130731897824 for $11.50.

I don't think I need more than 500 mA tranny. If anyone knows the good and cheap source of these please post it there.
 
Stuff gets here from China faster than you might believe. it took the same time for something to get from Portland to New Jersey as it did from China to NJ, 5 business days over a holiday. Admittedly we're talking a small bubble mailer vs a 30 lb box containing a massive bench multimeter but still. I'd expect your stuff to come in a small box or bubble mailer, so probably 5-10 days still.
 
The 100K pot will be an upgrade. The lower the value, the better. You don't find any modern gear with 250K pots since it will add far too much noise, and is not nedded with most equipment. For ancient radios and the like, the story may be different.

Be happy with the 100K. Preferably get 50.
 
100k volume pot will load down the phono stage too much.
But if using an extarnal riaa then it does not matter.
 
"lower the better" is definitely not the case. The one that matches the circuit parameters is the best one to get.
 
100k volume pot will load down the phono stage too much.
But if using an extarnal riaa then it does not matter.

According to audioregenesis.com Website that contains IMHO the most comprehensive analysis of PAS2/3/3Xpreamps, the 100Kpot should be fine:

"...A common modification involves replacing the 250K volume potentiometer with a modern, higher quality one, at 100K. How will this affect the phono response? Well, assuming the blend switch has not been bypassed (deleting the 47K series resistor), and the balance pot. remains unchanged, then the phono stage would see a load of about 135K. That would be approximately the same as applying a load of 330K at the tape out jacks of the stock circuit. You'd probably be down about half of a dB at 30Hz, and perhaps 1dB at 20Hz. Would you hear that? Probably not, as long as you don't connect anything to the tape out jacks...."

Taking from http://www.audioregenesis.com/documents/PAS_Phono.pdf, page 10.
 
I don't think I need more than 500 mA tranny. If anyone knows the good and cheap source of these please post it there.
With my new project I have a remote with a motorized volume attenuator. As per my scope in testing it draws <300ma when raising or lowering the volume via remote. I hope this helps.
 
With 100k pot you are dangerously close "as long as you don't connect anything to the tape out jacks"
It's certainly not a general preamp with built-in margins and a usable tape-out connector.
I also used a 100k pot BUT i introduced a cathode follower stage before the (same) pot, thus keeping
the full potential of the amp.
 
With my new project I have a remote with a motorized volume attenuator. As per my scope in testing it draws <300ma when raising or lowering the volume via remote. I hope this helps.

Please pardon my ignorance but how did you measured the current with the scope? I planned to do this with my DMM set as ammeter.
 
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